Sun's Big Gamble

Sun Nov 19 18:59:47 -0800 2006
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It has been almost painful to watch Sun over the last few years.  Scott McNealy, Sun's co-founder and Chairman, so desperately wanted to compete with Microsoft on the desktop that he often led his company in some very odd directions.

When you consider that Sun's strength has always been on the server, things like the purchase of StarOffice and the creation of the JDS are just plain baffling.  Only when you put it in the perspective of "sticking it to Microsoft" does it begin to make sense.

During the dot-com bubble of the 90s, Sun flew quite high and made immense amounts of money.  That money allowed them to explore all sorts of ventures that weren't part of their core business.  It also allowed them to delude themselves into thinking that one day everyone would see the light and run the superior Solaris on their desktop, shunning Windows. 

Yeah, right.

Sun only has three real product lines: hardware, Java and Solaris.

Believe it or not, their hardware is Open Source.  The specifications for Sparc have been available for years, as long as you pay the licensing fee to Sparc International.  Back in late 2005 Sun released the Verilog descriptions, accompanying verification suite and simulation models to their UltraSparc T1 (Niagara) multi-core processor.  Of course, not everyone has a chip foundry at their disposal, but it is as open as you can get with a CPU.

Their successful suit of Microsoft, back in 2000-2001, directly led to Sun's realizing they could successfully GPL Java without worrying about a fork.  Java is a brand, not software.  If you can't pass the compatibility test, you can't call it Java.  If you can't call it Java, it will be dead in the water.  Sun controls the definition of Java.  QED.

That just leaves Solaris.  Solaris has always been a strong contender in the Unix market, and the latest version brings to the table some very advanced features such as ZFS, Containers and DTrace.  Their official position has always been that Solaris is superior to Linux in every way, and while Linux may be suitable for limited use at the "edge" of the network, the core belonged to Solaris.  If you were serious, you called Sun.  Period.

Things change.  Sun released Solaris X86, which ran on Intel-compatible processors as opposed to Sun's own Sparc.  While they made lots of noise about supporting the x86 market, their actions spoke more loudly than words and their support of Solaris X86 was noticeably weak.  They were accused several times of trying to kill off their own product, which survived only due to the small, but rabid fan base.  The message was still there, that if you were pig-headed enough to want to run Unix on Intel, then they'd sell you something.  When you got serious, come back and you'd have a good migration path to a real operating system.

But Solaris doesn't really make Sun any money.  To compete with the perceived "free" cost of Linux, Sun reduced the license costs of Solaris to almost nothing.  When someone purchases a $500,000 computer, plus a few years of dedicated support for another $200,000, tossing in the cost of the OS is a no-brainer.

Now, while Sun may have derided Linux for being a poor shadow of Solaris in the highest levels of the enterprise, there is no arguing that it has matured at an astounding rate.  If you look at the feature sets graphed on a curve, it becomes obvious that Linux surpassing Solaris isn't an "if", but a "when".  The features that Solaris boasts over Linux are more and more frequently appealing to a smaller and smaller niche at the very top of the market.  Solaris may outshine Linux on systems with 64 or more CPUs, but just how big of a market is that?

It may have taken years, but I think Sun is finally realizing this.  Someone finally looked at the numbers and realized the market for small, 1U & 2U servers is substantial, and while Solaris may kick butt on big iron, little iron is 95% of the market.  As painful as it is to some people, the reality is Sun is a hardware and services company, not a software company.

So, where does that leave Sun and Solaris?  Enter Linux.

By releasing Solaris under the GPL, Linux will be able to close the gap in record time.  Sun is reported to be seriously considering opening Solaris under the GPL.  With Sun's longtime attitude of superiority, I seriously doubt there will be much migration of code from Linux to Solaris.  However, it means that Linux can integrate the best and brightest of Solaris.  Give it a year or so and no one will be in a position to declare Solaris' superiority over Linux at all, core system or not. Any deficiencies that Linux has on big systems can be cannibalized and integrated.  Sun can still sell hardware, but the R&D and expenses for the OS can be greatly reduced.  The dedicated Solaris development team can be reduced as Solaris is absorbed and replaced by Linux, and the community takes over.  Sun can finally focus on what they do best -- sell killer hardware and superior services and support.
 
Sun's recent certification of Ubuntu on their UltraSparc T1 Niagara systems only furthers this.  Official blessing from Sun for Linux on their hottest hardware.

In the end Scott McNealy may actually have a chance at seeing Microsoft unseated as the desktop king, with Sun being a major contributing factor.

The big question is, can Sun pull the trigger?  Opening Solaris under the GPL is signing its death warrant, no two ways about it.  IBM has come to terms with the eventual replacement of AIX with Linux.  Likewise HP with HP-UX/Tru64.  Can Sun make that call and still be Sun?

What do you think?  Will Sun take the final plunge and embrace the GPL for its (remaining) crown jewels?  What will that mean for the future of Linux and of Sun?

Sun's Big Gamble
Sun Nov 19 19:56:43 -0800 2006
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I see it a bit differently I guess. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to rip all the great stuff out of Solaris just to patch and wedge it into Linux. It would make much more sense to use the GNU software with the far more advanced and extremely stable Solaris core. We could then put a bullet in the GNU/Linux weak spot, Linux.
Sun's Big Gamble
Sun Nov 19 20:50:14 -0800 2006
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Wishful thinking.  The GNU software has been available for years on Solaris, both from Sunfreeware.com and straight from Sun, and while there is an attempt at GNU/Solaris, you're going to run into two major issues.

The first is that Linux runs on more than a dozen different architectures, not just Sparc and x86-64.  I find it hard to imagine Solaris fans putting the effort into getting it to run on Power, MIPS, ARM or other architectures.  That would be akin to heresy.

The second is mindshare.  Linux, like it or not, has the momentum and has the buzz.  Solaris does not.  Linux has a massive community that dwarfs OpenSolaris, and getting them to move over to OpenSolaris -- GPL or not -- would be a futile effort.

Finally, can you honestly see IBM, HP, SGI and the other Unix players ditching everything for Solaris?  Hell just can't get that cold.

Like it or not, the OS world is going to come down to two choices: Windows or Linux.  Everything else is going to be a negligible percentage point.

windows or Linux or

Sun Nov 19 22:54:48 -0800 2006
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don't forget BSD, that's got more than a percentage point in the desktop and server worlds (maybe two percent in desktop due to Mac OSX)

there is a PPC opensolaris port that just started, but very unlikely any other opensolaris ports would even be attempted.
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 02:06:48 -0800 2006
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I’m not sure if any of your points really matter all that much:

Sun is in a position that either they change course or Solaris becomes more and more of a has been OS, despite some pretty advanced features. By opening open Solaris they broaden the mindshare of Solaris… in essence they legitimize what I suspect would be a large part of the people that they wouldn’t be making money from anyway. Sure it isn’t the mindshare of Linux but I don’t think you need the market share or the mindshare of MS or Linux to consider an OS to be successful.

Does it matter that Solaris doesn’t run on MIPS or ARM? I’m not so sure… I guess this limits what they can do in the server appliance market but in all honesty I not so sure there really is an advantage to using an ARM or MIPS CPU in this situation. I guess this also puts them out of the portable market but then again who wants to run Solaris on a portable device? I see that the Open Solaris website does have an appliance section and as I expected it is virtually empty.

 Will other big companies use Solaris? Probably not but as long as their OSes are closed I don’t think they can keep up developmentally with Open OSes. After all who else uses HP’s True 64 Unix or IBM’s AIX?  Where I work we use True64… and the selection was driven by the application. So we use it for that one application on 16 seats and that’s it.  It has virtually no chance to broaden it’s usage at our facility. Incidentally we are using Solaris for *all* of our web services.  

I’ll be the first to admit I have not read the CDDL nor the GPL>1.0 so I shouldn’t really comment on which is the most beneficial to the project. Personally I suspect that provided that Sun isn’t being underhanded and/ or sneaky either license would be beneficial to the project and GPL more beneficial to the community.

 As far as the whole world coming down to just 2 OSes… this is just incorrect.  From phones & dishwashers to supercomputers and interplanetary probes there are far more applications and far more variety than Windows & Linux support… I’m pretty sure Windows is still a distant contender in the embedded world behind ITRON and VxWorks and I’m also pretty sure that in Web server market the various BSDs and Solaris make a very strong showing. On the desktop I’m sure there a plenty of Apple customers that would object to the idea that only 2 different OSes.

Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 08:31:28 -0800 2006
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"Sun is in a position that either they change course or Solaris becomes more and more of a has been OS, despite some pretty advanced features. "

As inevitable as these kinds of articles are within the next few months, I think your point is the big one: *leadership*. Viability against Linux over the next few years will require nothing less than the highest level of inspired and enlightened leadership. Sun needs to be humble and talk NOW to more non-Sun people to maximize Sun's ROI with Solaris and to develop the necessary vision and roadmap. Waiting to see how GPLed Java "does" is way, way too late.

There are also litigation risk and other concerns why the free software community should not be so hell bent on only one popular kernel.

Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 10:03:10 -0800 2006
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Well I don't see a helluva lot of MIPS or ARM based servers/workstations these days, but who knows what you might be interested in. If you lay down the Linux fanboy crap for a few minutes you might actually notice that Solaris is quit a bit better than Linux in many, many areas. I'm sure there are some developers, count me as number friggin one, that would also like a stable system to develop for. When I say stable I'm not talking uptime here. A kernel that doesn't change and break shit on a weekly basis would be nice.
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 10:17:57 -0800 2006
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please enlighten me on all the ways solaris is way, way better than a stable server linux distro (see my post below, I was solaris/sun fanboy for over a decade).  Why are you talking changing kernels every week, a stable linux server distro is going to change kernel once every 18 months or more.
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 11:02:17 -0800 2006
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I was speaking of a stable API, not changing kernels in $insertfavdistrohere. As for your claims below, I can't prove or disprove whether you used Solaris for 16 years, nor do I care. The bottom line is that the original submission is a borderline troll.
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 11:34:35 -0800 2006
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Ah, from the perspective of the systems module/driver developer Linux is bound to be more exciting and action packed if you're dealing with ALL the released kernels rather than distro-chosen stable ones, but from the perspective of business/end user is how I'm saying Linux in many ways better than solaris, and those few features solaris shines in really don't matter much to them (dtrace and mdb can be huge for developers though depending on what their projects are)
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 12:59:05 -0800 2006
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Things could get interesting if Linux doesn't go GPL v3, but Solaris does.  A motivated Free Software movement might embrace the Solarius code base, while Open Source stays with Linux?  Maybe that is what Sun is counting on for mindshare?

If it runs on x86-64 that's a pretty good stopgap position to have until porting is completed.  Two competing kernels could be a good thing, hopefully urging each other to greater heights.  (A company that has been convicted of anti-competitiveness is hardly a source of healthy competition.)

> Finally, can you honestly see IBM, HP, SGI and the other Unix players ditching everything for Solaris?

If they see merit in the GPL v3, and Linux doesn't have it, maybe.
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 14:03:00 -0800 2006
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>Things could get interesting if Linux doesn't go GPL v3, but Solaris does.  A motivated Free Software movement might embrace the Solarius code base, while Open Source stays with Linux?  Maybe that is what Sun is counting on for mindshare?

There of course are a ton of many differing motivations but also agendas and egos to consider.  If Sun learns enough of those details to find enough commonality, they can make it happen.

Sun is very keen on the GPLv3 draft and process.  Consider OpenSolaris's current CDDL license, the fact that its non-viral nature would not immediately turn off some {Free,Open,Net}BSD contributors, and that Sun is into dual-licensing these days.  Moreover, I think that GPLv3 is compatible with CDDL (GPLv2 is incompatible with CDDL).

All of this may very well have been moot, had the BSD kernels not fractured so badly, so I am having trouble seeing how those folks can be interrupted from their rush to obscurity.  If Sun could pull off a minor miracle here, OpenSolaris could go anywhere.
Sun's Big Gamble
Sun Nov 19 21:26:12 -0800 2006
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having worked with Solaris for over 16 years, I'm wondering what anymore is so much more advanced about the kernel of Solaris than Linux?   dtrace, mdb and the fine degree of threading/locking are all that come to my mind (things like zfs can be ported anywhere), and Linux SMP abilities are growing by the minute, by the end of this year it'll do just dandy in the 128 to 256 processor space, with further improvements to fine-grained locking ongoing.    But for kernel debugging and development how much of a lack of dtrace/mdb is made up for with tens of thousands of testers and millions of users providing feedback?

If we talk about scalability, how low does solaris go?   ever see solaris running a pda or cell phone or network hub?

Comparing a whole OS not just the kernel, Solaris 10 vs good GNU/Linux distro, seems to me the penguin has the edge, Linux has:

more than a dozen hardware platforms supported
far easier administration than solaris
more available software packages
more device drivers and more software packages for working with external devices
open source from day one till now (solaris != opensolaris)
not dependent on the future of any one company
higher security in default installation than solaris
true lowest to high end scalability
service and support from all the big hardware vendors if you want it
virtualization, free and closed source flavors (can even run solaris and windows in one of them!)


And let's not go too far with the legend of Solaris stability and robustness, after loading some patch sets year after year one realizes that solaris has lotsa bugs just like any other OS, and if you work with many of the beasts you'll sooner or later see a non-hardware caused solaris kernel panic and gut puking  (congrats, you've helped with some future patch).  Yes it is very solid, but it is not perfect.


clarification - SunOS (aka Solaris 1.x) and Solaris

Sun Nov 19 23:18:15 -0800 2006
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Sun retroactively named their BSD with Sys VR4 IPC and STREAMS I/O known as SunOS 4.1.1  to  Solaris 1.0, and that's what I mean by 16 years of Solaris.  If it makes some to feel better if I say 4 years of SunOS 4.1.x and then 12 years of Solaris 2 & up that's ok.
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 13:15:07 -0800 2006
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I don't think you can say that ZFS can be ported anywhere... its license is incompatible with the GPL and thus can not be ported to Linux unless through FUSE (which I don't think can be considered something to be used in this way in a production environment).

I also don't think that scalability is something to make big deal over... I (try to) use the right OS for the right job and that's not always Linux.

How often do you use a public Linux distro (or even NetBSD) on oddball hardware.  I do embedded stuff and all of highend stuff has just started to migrate from VxWorks & RTEMS to Linux & NetBSD.  I have to tell you the first foray into Linux was very, very painful for us (more painful than our small NetBSD project). I really don't think it's fair to call out one disto as the one we use because we don't really start with one (I've tried Bluecat)... although we do use SuSE on the developers workstations and some flavor of *nix throughout R&D.

You have a big point on the Open thing and really to this day I'm not sure what the difference between Open Solaris and regular Solaris is.  I can't be the only one with sinking feeling!

I also think SMP scaling is becoming more important... but maybe that's just me.

Hopefully you can tell through my random musings that I'm not completely disagreeing with you, it's that I just don't buy the slashdotseque "Solaris is dying" meme and I hope that opening up their OS they can revitalize it.


One more thing.. I discounted the secure by default claim as their is no real default Linux and for being far to close to OpenBSD.

I am not happy with the OpenBSD folks right now... I use OpenBSD on my firewall at home and I'm over the Secure by default; over the it's our way or the highway; over the we will not implement feature X because feature X has ugly code in another project; over the we will not cooperate with vendor X because vendor X did provide the hardware documents in a special way.  Honestly the whole thing is starting to look like it's made for a hacker's laptop and little else.  Moreover, it's starting to look to me that OpenBSD is falling behind in things that ought to be its core competencies and that other other Open OSes are starting to surpass them.


OK Sorry about the OT OpenBSD rant....
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 13:58:41 -0800 2006
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about ZFS, meant it's just a filesystem and no technical reason it needs solaris plumbing behind it. Might also be reversed engineered (probably will be) or Linux could develop a competing 128 bit copy-on-write checksumming always-self-consistent filesystem.

Have used Linux and various *BSD on Sparc, Ultrasparc, PA-RISC, 680x0 and MIPS hardware, there more of that going on than anyone knows because of "appliance" type needs and constrained budgets and piles of old hardware that all mid and large companies and colleges and governments have lying around.  Some folk prefer Linux on their PDA or wifi hub/router/nat  or NAS toaster and don't mind ripping out the manufacturers OS by the roots and putting in something knowable, predictable and controllable.

OpenBSD is in a funny place, the GNU/Linux is now securable enough you can run hooked right to the internet and scalable downward enough you can make a install image that's as tiny as BSDs.  Not as compelling as it once was for appliance use.   the OBSD folk are pushing to get into desktop/portable (like wireless) use and server (like fine SMP) in there, while security seems now focused on preventing overflows & overruns & ornery values.   I still like it, they get manufacturers to open up, it benefits the other open source OS as well.

As long as we get to ramble offtopic, could say it seems to me FreeBSD has got itself into design snafu that'll take a couple more releases to sort out, dragonfly is interesting one to watch to see if they can one day realize their dream of correctly engineered hugely scalable BSD, NetBSD is steady and is sprouting high-end capabilities.
Sun's Big Gamble
Mon Nov 20 15:14:06 -0800 2006
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Sun needs to "wake up" enough people to see the problems underlying your observations and agree on how to go forward.  Wouldn't an obvious source of initial help be the more experienced consultants and system administrators who are familiar with Solaris, the BSDs, and their communities?  Sun could pay a couple of elite workers to investigate and describe some strategies for cooperation, i.e., *various* incentives.  What other kinds of things could be done?  What other considerations?

Ironically, Linux is becoming so big, that a well-positioned OpenSolaris--despite having roots older than Linux--would have a "novelty" factor for young hackers who learn about it from the "GPL-generated" buzz.

Of course, all of this would have to happen despite the commoditization of the market!
Sun's Big Gamble
jhh
Mon Nov 27 13:35:17 -0800 2006
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I don't think Solaris has a bright future. It's evolving too slow, too many restrictions Just look at their attempt to update their /bin/ksh from ksh88 to ksh93 - they're working on it since a year and they are still not finished. The ksh93 integration project takes an eternity or two while Linux does the same job in two weeks or a month. This shows the great failure of the Opensolaris project. They're too slow, often twelve times slower than Linux. Sun still has superior features, but at the current evolution rate it is just a matter of time when Linux becomes superior compares to Solaris