Are your toes dexterous?

jeremyh

Fri Jul 07 23:55:17 -0700 2006

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When I was around 13 I had a tv at the end of my bed. I used my toes to press the buttons on the tv as it didn't have a remote. I pick things up with my big toe all the time around the house, so I may have just learnt to do it as you said.

When I was around 5 I used to go barefoot quite a lot, my mum had trouble getting me to put shoes on (we originally lived in a fairly tropical climate).

I'm also left handed and an awful dancer.

Are your toes dexterous?

jay car

Sat Jul 08 15:27:27 -0700 2006

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Oh my, I am laughing out loud at this one!  I spent my childhood hiding or purposely losing my shoes as often as possible.  Spent most of my teen years running around barefoot, often carrying my shoes to school rather than wearing them.  Needless to say, I don't have a lot of understanding for other women that have closets full of shoes.  I rarely ever have more than 4 pair at once.  In fact, I've never had a comfortable pair of shoes.  I have very small feet, and very high arches...I am right-handed, but am able to get along fine if I need to do things with my left hand.

I cannot remember a time in my life when I didn't use my toes nearly as much as my hands.  I can pick up anything, from a dime, to a baseball bat with my toes.  I can pinch with them too.  I spent a lot of time climbing trees when I was little, and toes came in very handy for that!  

When I first learned to drive the instructor got very upset with me because I insisted on driving in bare feet.  It was easier for me to learn how to use the clutch when I didn't wear shoes.  I drove everywhere with my shoes on the seat beside me until I was well into my 30s.

I can also cross all my toes...being able to cross my little toe over the next toe was quite an icebreaker in school (I was a bit of a tom boy, so it was funny to make the girls go "eeewww!" lol!).  The first time I played softball at a new high school, I walked up to the plate and reached over with my foot and picked up the bat with my toes.  When I looked up I was dismayed to see all the girls out in the field bent over in laughter.  Fortunately my family moved again fairly soon.  I was getting tired of having the nickname of "Monkey Toes".  : )

My 35 year old son still laughs because he remembers thinking he was out of reach a few times when he was small...and I'd get a hold of the back of his shirt with my toes and keep him from running off...I could also reach out and grab things out of his little hands if he got a hold of something he shouldn't. 

OK, I'll stop with the silly toe-memories...but I gotta tell ya, it's been fun to finally know that I am not so odd as I've always felt over this toe thing.  I try not to do toe tricks in front of people anymore (I did grow up and learn how to act like a lady when necessary).  Though I still use my toes a lot at home.

I never have learn to love shoes though.  I leave them by the door, wear them when I go out, and kick them off the minute I get home. 

Hey, maybe this is some leftover evolutionary thing and I really do have monkey feet?  : )

Are your toes dexterous?

epicurus1

Sat Jan 27 15:05:26 -0800 2007

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I too have been a life-long toe user. I remember as a kid "converting" friends to the idea of picking up things with their toes. I'm very right-handed, and very right-footed. I've always been very flat-footed, with unfortunately short and chubby  toes, but with a huge space between the first two. Over the years I've had the "can you do things with your toes?" conversation hundreds of times.  I've met a handful of people who have as much toe-awareness as I do, or even more (for instance, a college friend who told me she consciously practiced doing everything with her toes that she did with her fingers, "just in case...") A short list of toe-dexterity which I have been a party to (mainly as toe-user, sometimes as observer): writing with pencil, pen, or marker (that means keeping your heel in one spot, not moving your whole foot to write); picking up coins; folding paper; dialing a phone; typing; picking up a book and turning pages; interlacing toes (like folding hands); undoing buttons and zippers; operating switches, keyboarding, piano; opening up a wallet and removing money (I taught a girlfriend to do this); untying shoelaces (I once met a woman who claimed she could tie laces); lighting matches; eating (jellybeans, grapes); opening doorknobs; opening small jars (medicine bottles).  I've had a couple of friends who have worn the title "monkey toes" with pride.  My college friend was able to tear off a match from a matchbook and light it, using only her feet.  I've always found that people who use their toes without a second thought are brighter, more creative, less uptight than normal.

Now middle aged, with joint issues, it's hard to believe that I could once pick up coins from a flat floor between my first two toes (none of that five-toe-grab stuff -- that's cheating). Anyhow, all the power to you for being a toe-person: I hope you feel free to use your toe-skills in public, to heck with those who don't appreciate it.  I hope you have found, as I have, that people who have toe dexterity tend to hit it off. 

Are your toes dexterous?

scott greenberg

Tue Mar 04 22:51:36 -0800 2008

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I too am someone who doesn't think twice about using my toes like fingers.  After all, weren't they meant for that??  By the way, I'd love to talk more about this kind of thing if  you're interested.  I find the whole subject to be quite fascinating.

Are your toes dexterous?

James Pasch

Tue Jul 29 20:08:18 -0700 2008

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Hey if you ever want to talk about this whole dexterous toe thing throw me a line, would be great to talk with you. james_pasch@yahoo.ca

Are your toes dexterous?

complich8

Fri Jul 07 23:57:42 -0700 2006

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I doubt handedness has anything to do with it -- I'm right-handed, and have been known to use my feet as alternate hands (handling some more grippable doorknobs, flicking lightswitches, picking up papers, etc).  It annoys the hell out of some of my friends, who aren't used to seeing feet used for all the things that feet can be useful for.  My philosophy on it has always been "whatever free appendage is closest tries to do the job."

The shoe theory might hold water though.  I tried to avoid shoes at all costs as a kid.  I remember taking fairly long walks around the neighborhood barefooted ... of course, crossing the streets sucked 'cause blacktop got REALLY hot in the summer.  And spruce needles in my front yard were no fun either.  I kept that habit up for a little while at college, until yellowjackets on campus stung me in the foot twice over the span of a week (at which point I developed a strong hatred for wasps, and by association all social hymenoptera).

Another interesting side of things is this: I remember this story ... I think in Nintendo Power magazine back in the NES era, about a kid who wanted to play video games but didn't have arms.  I forget if he was an amputee or was simply born with no arms, but he had adapted to play games with his toes pretty well.

We're such amazingly adaptable creatures, with such incredibly flexible nervous systems.  I would expect that simply not being encouraged to use their toes for things other than walking, a lot of people would have simply never developed the dexterity to do so, the same way a lot of people haven't developed the ability to throw, catch, write or do more than basic functions with their off hands.

I'd compare it to learned ambidexterity, such as what happens when people are forced to write with their off-hand for a couple months (say, after breaking their favored arm), or how lefties are sometimes trained to be righties, despite their innate handedness preference.

More interesting paths of investigation might involve testing the learnability of toe-dexterity (ie: having people try to manipulate things with their feet, measuring the degree to which they succeeded, having a control group and an experimental group, and giving the experimental group a regimen of daily toe exercises to see if they would improve relative to the control group in ... say, a month).

My vision of how to test toe-dexterity involves having barefooted people pick up marbles with their feet and put them in a bucket, and timing how long it takes them to complete the task (or trip and fall over in a comical display for the enjoyment of the researchers ... depending on how many marbles, I spose).

A wikipedia search for "toe dexterity" comes up with some interesting background too, involving "armless wonders" and an armless violinist named Carl Herman Unthan.

Are your toes dexterous?

kanem

Sat Jul 08 05:25:58 -0700 2006

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Every girlfriend who has seen me pick up a pen and write (badly) with my toes has also been a bit disgusted. Which was my intention.

I'm also left handed, and I guess I never wore shoes in the house as a child. That may have helped.

Or maybe it's just toe-length. Mine are pretty long for toes. Yeah, I'd say toe-length should be the first factor to consider.

Are your toes dexterous?

mazarin5

Sat Jul 08 13:06:49 -0700 2006

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I have stubby toes, but I can manipulate objects fairly well.

I agree with the gross factor though; sometimes I'll type with my toes just to irritate my wife. :)

Are your toes dexterous?

Inali Kealoha

Thu Oct 16 20:57:52 -0700 2008

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I also do not have very long toes. They aren't stubby, either, but they aren't what one would consider long. I have "middle of the road" toes. :) I have great dexterity with my toes. Man, if I saw someone write with their toes, or type, I'd be happy and call them my buddy. LOL I don't know why people get grossed out about others using their toes for what is usually a hand-related activity!

Are your toes dexterous?

htc

Sat Jul 08 08:26:39 -0700 2006

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I don't use my toes as much as I used to, but I'm reasonably good at manipulating things with my toes.

Not sure about the shoes theory though, I have two sisters and I don't think there was any significant difference in the amount of time we spent wearing shoes. But they have very little toe dexterity.

My mother tells me I used to hold my bottle with my feet when I was a baby. I would guess that is fairly common actually, but my sisters didn't do it.

/Left handed and a terrible dancer.

Holding, and flipping the pages of, a book

Beryllium Sphere(r)

Sat Jul 08 10:01:35 -0700 2006

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My wife's college roommate did that with her feet. That was, however, less remarkable than her ability to do knitting with her feet.

Are your toes dexterous?

Reziac

Sat Jul 08 10:35:18 -0700 2006

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Given that kids born without arms quickly learn to use their feet as "hands", I suspect it's mainly a matter of need, opportunity, and training by repetition, much as any other muscle-memory or neural-pathway is developed.

I'm right-handed, in most ways to the point where if I lost my left arm, I might not notice for a week ... except that I'm a totally lefthanded shooter in FPS games. In baseball, I'm naturally right-handed, but was able to switch-hit the first time I tried it. (And I still suck just as much either way. :)

But I use my feet much as you do -- to pick up stuff that happens to be of a size to grip and in reach. Any small or flexible object is fair game. I think a lot of that is that I always wear thongs all summer, and that tends to develop the feet's "grip", cuz otherwise you're always throwing a shoe.

In general I'm right-footed, tho I'm not sure how much of that is balance -- my one-legged balance is naturally better when standing on my left foot, and I'm a right-footed kicker tho can do that either way. [wiggling toes experimentally] There's some handedness there, but not as pronounced as with the hands.

With some practice, I've also learned to move my 2nd toe independently of the rest. This looks weird and grosses people out. :)

Are your toes dexterous?

ShaneC

Sat Jul 08 13:10:47 -0700 2006

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The general consensus of people responding has been “left handed, bad dancer.”  Well, as a right handed, good dancer (although my follows may disagree) I can tell you that I also have pretty good toe dexterity.  I can’t write with my toes, or play video games, but picking up just about anything (reasonable), or manipulating things is no problem.

 
There are a couple similarities, from my viewpoint.  I have always (even to this day) gone barefoot when possible.  (and I agree about the asphalt driveways, but have you tried gravel driveways when you haven’t been outside much?)  I have never developed the ability to stand on my toes (I even have shoes designed to help that, and still I can’t do it).

 
My suggestion to any would-be researchers out there is to study how shoes affect the growth of the nervous system through out the feet, and the neural pathways within the brain.  If wearing shoes at an early age diminishes the nervous system in the feat, adults that wore shoes early, and often, should not be able to learn to use their toes in expanded fashion.  On the other hand, if wearing shoes at an early age simply retards the signals coming from the feet, but allows the nervous system to grow at normal fashion, adults should be able to stimulate those pathways within the brain, and learn how to manipulate their feet.

Are your toes dexterous?

Blurfle

Mon Jul 10 08:38:52 -0700 2006

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I'll offer up myself as a counter-example: right-handed, bad dancer, wearer of shoes during childhood, posesser of what the wife and kids call "monkey feet".  Both of my kids can manipulate their toes (or perhaps that should be 'pedipulate'), my wife can't.

When I 'do the wave' with my toes, I just noticed that I have some sympathetic sensation of the same movement in the corresponding hand. Similarly for spreading the toes.

Are your toes dexterous?

hal9000_sn3

Sun Jul 09 00:37:47 -0700 2006

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I was (and remain) very flat footed, and had foot exercises prescribed when I was young. I could pick up a pencil and write with it, cross my toes and move them mostly independently. We never had much money, so especially in summer time we were encouraged to not wear shoes except when necessary.
I am very right handed, but cannot dance at all, despite spending money, effort and time trying to learn. But, my mother, younger brother, and older sister are all left handed.
I lost all my foot dexterity, and most sensation from about sock top height down around three years ago or so. Initially the change is sensitivity was similar to as if one or both feet were in ice water. It comes and goes, at first it was only about every other day, and mostly lasted only a few minutes. It may go without saying, but this made me very clumsy, and wary of certain activities, like driving a car, or climbing ladders.
I thought maybe I was pinching a nerve from poor seating posture, or from sleeping in a weird position. I let a chiropractor I know try his best, which made no difference. I put a couple of pillows under my knees at night, which is more comfortable, and have tried to be more aware of seating, walking, standing posture and positions.
Then, additionally instead of numbness and weakness, I started having burning, tingling, electric shock, types of pains, and cramps in calves, soles and tops of feet, and in the toes, and a lot ot trouble sleeping. So, I got my MD to refer me to a neurologist, and got all checked out. Most tests came back negative, no heavy metals, no unusual proteins in spinal fluid, no signs of pesticide or solvent toxicity, thyroid levels normal, no lyme disease antibodies, circulation is normal, etc. But nerve velocity and amplitudes are about eighty percent below normal. Oddly, the objective tests say my right foot and leg are worse, but subjectively my left is worse. The few medicines that seemed worth trying are mostly intended to reduce pain, and mostly either are ineffective or create other problems or worse.
The neurologist had labled it CIDP (chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy). However, he says it seems quite unusual to him. In part because it had stabilised for the last year, and also because he has never seen this in an otherwise healthy under fifty year old male.
I have been riding my bicycle a lot more and I believe that has helped stabilise the damage, and it is seemingly less dangerous to have a foot 'disappear' while bicycling than it would be while driving.
I can barely move my toes at all now, and sometimes not at all. And when I can move them, they feel very stiff. There is no way I can pick anything up with them. It has become difficult to balance on one foot, and impossible to balance with my eyes closed.
The only future possible treatments that have been mentioned are Plasmapheresis or steroids. Both are costly beyond my means, and both are likely to cause other problems. I really do not know what I will choose when it comes to being unable to walk, or having other limbs and body parts involved.
Research on the web has left me informed, but with no real hope, only exercise seems to help much without major side effects, and mostly only stops but does not reverse the damage.
Anyone here have any suggestions?

Are your toes dexterous?

bill_mcgonigle

Sun Jul 09 16:05:04 -0700 2006

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But nerve velocity and amplitudes are about eighty percent below normal.

Have they tested you for MS? Diabetes? Can you get someone to prescribe for you a round of anti-virals? There are some studies of nerve-scar-prevention drugs and something else which 'calls out' to dendrites to connect which can help some nerves reattach. It's experimental so you might have trouble acquiring such treatment. Cornell Medical IIRC.

You mention cost, but I can't see how you can justify material possesions or eschew debt if you're slowly losing use of your body. If you really can't afford meds even without such things, apply to the drug companies for free drugs - most of them have a financial need program.

IANAP, obviously.

Are your toes dexterous?

Bruce Perens

Sun Jul 09 21:14:10 -0700 2006

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If you are anywhere near Cupertino, California, make an appointment with Marge Bonsall at Bonsall's Foot Solutions (formerly Bonsall's Walk-Rite Shoes). Say I sent you. She helped my wife tremendously when she had a sphigmoid process break and could not walk across a parking lot without bad pain. Doctors weren't helping, had her in some big makeshift shoe and gave her a really bad prognosis for walking much any more. With Marge's shoes, she was able to go on a long hiking trip and has not become debilitated again.

The other folks in the store are certified pedorphists, but they are mostly shoe salespeople. Marge is several steps above your usual pedorphist and is the founder of the whole chain. She has a combination of well-constructed shoes to recommend, the skill to modify them heavily and construct custom orthotics, and a lot of understanding of what is going on with people's feet. Although I didn't have a serious problem like my wife was, I have 12 EEE feet that are hard to fit, and odd walk, and have busted my knee. She's given me wonderful shoes and boots with custom footbeds that let me stand up all day and not feel even an ache. Most people never own a pair of shoes that really fit, not to mention footbeds that fit their arches.

Be prepared for her to not show up on time for appointments and for a general lack of organization. Also, be prepared to spend at least $200/pair for shoes. The frustration and the money are worth it.

Bruce

Are your toes dexterous?

James Pasch

Thu Jul 27 12:42:24 -0700 2006

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I've used my feet as an extra pair of hands since I was a kid. Since then, I've been discovering new moves that toes can do. For example, I once saw a friend move his pinky toe downwards, and I wasn't able to do that, but I said to myself, "If he can do that, then I can".  I don't remember how much it took me to learn to move my pinky toe, it didn't took too much. Then I learned to move my big and pinky toe independently. I can also use my pinky toe to pick up stuff from the floor (ever met someone who can do that?) , but I also use the big and second toes for that. I tend to pick things up with my feet almost unconciously. Some years later, I learned to move my toes sidewards, and now I'm able to create a space about 1.5 inches (4 cm)  between my big and second toes. My mother once said me she never had me wear shoes, not even socks when I was a baby. Now I'm trying to learn to move the middle and fourth toes independently,

If anyone is interested you can send me an email  james_pasch@yahoo.ca

James

Soldering

pyro9

Thu Oct 19 04:46:04 -0700 2006

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I'm right handed and don't dance. As a lifelong southerner, shoes have always been somewhat optional, especially in childhood.

Since I telecommute, I wear shoes infrequently enough that they feel odd for a while when I do put them on. I cannot write with my toes (but may practice it now to build dexterity), but do use my feet for ligtht switches and picking up lightweight items frequently. I can reasonably easily shift my balance to use a foot at eye level while holding things in my arms.

One really useful thing is soldering. I can hold the solder in one hand, the piece to attach in the other and work a pencil iron between my toes (without burning myself). It gives me a lot better control than either a 'third hand' device or a feeder attached to the iron.

Soldering

Bruce Perens

Thu Oct 19 10:30:18 -0700 2006

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Soldering with two hands and a foot. I never imagined. If you upload a picture of that, we'll run it.

Bruce

Soldering

pyro9

Sun Oct 22 19:19:51 -0700 2006

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Next time I have the soldering iron out, I'll get someone to take a picture :-)

Are your toes dexterous?

Altacus

Thu Oct 19 06:58:56 -0700 2006

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Well I believe in the shoes theory, since I'm right handed and been told by my elders that I cut a pretty mean rug (anyone care to tell me what decade that was from?).  I used to do many things with my feet, but the one thing that makes me believe in the shoe theory is when I got into college and on, I would wear shoes.  I used to rock climb bare foot and recently tried it again, only this time my toes didn't help out like they used to, my feet kept cramping up.  Honestly, it makes sense, the more you use a muscle, the more control you gain over those muscles.  Ask any body builder who is able to flex muscles you never knew were in a human body.

Are your toes dexterous?

Ashiemay

Sun Feb 04 20:00:33 -0800 2007

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Well, i'm only a teenager now but I've had dexterous toes for as long as i can remember. I often pick things up or manipulate things without even thinking about it. Ever since I was little I've hated shoes, and if i had to wear them i just wanted them to be comfortable. When i was younger me and my siblings would run outside without shoes all the time. My feet were so used to it i could run over hot gravel, asphalt, pinecones and needles, thorns, and just about anything else without being bothered by it. I also loved climbing trees and holding on to the branches with only my toes. Now though, ever since a couple years back we haven't been allowed to go outside without shoes. However, my younger brothers still do so even though the punishment for that is lots of pushups. So naturally i try not to forget my shoes because i'm not strong in my arms, i've always been a runner so i have more lower body strength. My toes are pretty long, i didn't notice this until my freshman year. Me and some of my friends were outside on the football field and were playing around. I took of my shoes and socks because I could run much faster without them because i run on my toes naturally. The first words out of one of their mouths were "Om my gosh, your toes are so long and skinny." Naturally i was embarrased because they kept gawking at my toes, i quickly put my shoes on and didn't take them off again. I also remember that ever since i was little, i've always walked, run and stood on my toes. MY mother however didn't like this and got on to me about it all the time saying i could damage my feet and legs. So i try to keep a mind on it, though after walking on my feet flat all day long and them being stuffed into shoes, they start to spaz out all the way up my leg. It is actually painful for me, and i've only been to a doctor once for it. They said it was something to do with the ligaments and other tissues there. Another strange thing I've noticed is that whenever i'm not standing on them, like laying in bed or sitting down, they clench much like your hand would. They curl under and my big toe curls over them, it just feels to uncomfortable having them just straight out, if you know what i mean. I don't know, i guess they are just sensitive. I think it is mostly to do with family, my mother and siblings all have long toes, like to go without shoes and can use our hands interchangeably. I'm just the most dexterous out of all of us, but i'm also the most flexible. I wonder if that has something to do with it. Sorry if i grossed anyone out or anything but this is very interesting to me, i've wondered for a long time why my toes are like this.

Are your toes dexterous?

Amanda

Sun Apr 06 22:05:38 -0700 2008

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OMG,  I can't think of a time in my life that I wasn't able to use my toes like hands.  I really didn't wear shoes alot as a child.  I can pinch, take off my socks putting one inside the other, sort laundry, you name it.  When I was a kid I event attempted to draw with my feet (sort of like writing with my left hand, I am right handed).  I even had a boyfriend that used to call my sloth toe (idiot!).  Not only can I do things with my toes the second toe is longer (as long as my little finger)  is that common to the monkey people?  I don't know anybody else in my life that have this particular talent, my brother is good but not as good as me!!

Are your toes dexterous?

Inali Kealoha

Thu Oct 16 20:51:56 -0700 2008

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What a wonderful post!!! :)

Ever since I was a child, I saw my feet as nothing more than two extra wonderful and very useful hands with fingers. As a child, I absolutely loved to be barefoot. I also LOVED to climb up things (I still do, tee hee!) and I would often use my feet to grasp branches, hoist myself off rock crevices, and I would even use my feet to grab berries while my hands held onto the tree branches. I would also pick up any household items with my feet. I also prefered to walk on my toes as a child, but that was only because I felt more "primal" when I was walking on my toes. My mom can also do this with her feet, but not to the extent I can. When I was a kid, she'd praise me for picking up something with my foot and we'd play games where we had to use our feet to grab things, so maybe that is why I'm so good at it today.

Tonight, my family and I got rather bored, yet felt kind of silly. I started talking about my using my toes as other fingers. They always have seen me picking up dirty tissues (better than using your hands!) and putting them in the trashcan, picking up laundry or scrap paper up off the floor, etc. Yet, they didn't know exactly how dexterous my feet really were. One threw a stick of incense on the floor. Too easy, I even asked if he wanted me to light it with my other foot. LOL Then, a rusty old nail, which I picked up successfully without poking myself. Finally, a penny on tile flooring, which was still too simple. They were amazed that I could do that and I was sitting there wondering why they were so amazed! I was more amazed that these primates sitting in front of me didn't use their toes!

After all, isn't that what toes are for? Our primate cousins use their feet all the time, and since we're related to them, I always figured we were meant to, as well!

Nowadays, I'm still barefoot the majority of the time. In fact, I'm barefoot 99% of the time. I work from home and I am very much a loner, so I prefer to stay home anyways. I really have very little need for shoes, unlike when I was a kid and I did have to wear shoes a lot (although, I *hated* it!). Shoes have always been so unnatural for me.

I can pick up any object off the floor or grab it from you. I can feed myself with my feet, although I don't because I DO know what I step in at times. LOL I can cross my toes (minus my pinky toe... it's stubby and good only for balance). I can write and draw with my toes, though not nearly as well as with my hands. I don't believe I can type with my toes, but I've never tried, and I believe with practice, I could do so. I can push buttons with my feet and turn knobs with my feet. I can open bottles and a lot more.

As for what hand I use, I am mostly right-handed, although, I do use my left for a lot of things. I do all fine motor skills with my right, such as drawing, painting, writing, etc, but I can do anything else with my left just fine. In fact, I believe with practice, I could use my left hand, as well. I *can* write and draw with my left, but it's not as neat as with my right. I use my left a lot for pouring things or opening things, grabbing things, picking things up, the usual. However, I think it's odd that I am right-handed because I am *very* right-brained. I'm a professional digital illustrator (job #1) and I'm very creative and I think in abstract ways. However, I do have left-brained qualities, such as logic, language, writing, and strategy. So, maybe my brain is ambidextrous, I don't know. LOL I also have a strong fascination with technical, living things, so I'm also in the medical field (job #2), which tends to be a left-brained quality. The way the human body works is just so interesting. Maybe I'm just ambidextrous the whole way around.

I hope my story helped. :)