Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

duhavid

Thu Sep 21 16:42:52 -0700 2006

manage

Girls forced to go wild video tapes to follow?

Link does not work, by the way.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

rubycodez

Thu Sep 21 17:03:20 -0700 2006

manage

yeah, those thomas searches expire quickly, I changed it to a google search within thomas.locl.gov site, see if that's better, kind of a two-stage link clicking

for me the relavant bill version are first search result returned, let me know if I suck


and let's forego the coal coke product tar, and go with eco-friendly hot honey and army ants

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

duhavid

Thu Sep 21 17:51:43 -0700 2006

manage

Didnt intend a tar and feathering, just relaying information.  :-)

Hope I did not offend.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

rubycodez

Thu Sep 21 19:29:32 -0700 2006

manage

naw, that last sentence was about zogger's grumbling, the ants are for people whittling the bill of rights down to nothing

Now there's a thought

Beryllium Sphere(r)

Thu Sep 21 23:15:15 -0700 2006

manage

With surveillance cameras everywhere and taken for granted, someone might forget they're on video and accidentally produce a tape of a naked minor. From afar I hear the sound of lawyers salivating.

Now there's a thought

duhavid

Fri Sep 22 08:13:17 -0700 2006

manage

MIght not even be accidental.

There seems to be enough sexual abuse.  It seems odd to give
teachers ( in an authority position ) additional opportunity.

I didnt see anything in the text about oversight, authorization,
notification ( of parents ) , making sure that in no case no single
( as in  one, not married ) teacher does such a search, that these
searchs are done in a gender appropriate way (  men
searching women is probably bad, further, having an
avowed homosexual searching thier gender would be
probably be bad ).

Now there's a thought

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 15:05:08 -0700 2006

manage

Truth be told, this information will be put into the student handbook that in Florida is required to have a legal document signed by the parents/gaurdian and the student that they are in complete understanding of the entire handbook. The information will all be there, plain as day, but the problem is still the student do not read this book, most of the students don't give this book to their parents to read, and of the ones that do, maybe half of the parents actually open the book, that does not count the ones that actually read it.

A minor has to have a consent form to be photographed, so I am sure there will a consent form to this as well. But that does not go with not have single teachers being allowed to search a student. Married people cheat on each other every minute of everyday. And I do believe same gender searches are better, but then we have to grill about sexual preference. I think that only administration should be able to consent to this, but only the school nurse / school resource officers, or local law enforcement should be able to conduct such searches.

At any rate, as good of an idea as it sounds, this bill is bogus as all you need is a suspicion to conduct a strip search. My personal opinion is the person who created this bill needs to be shot in the head for giving so much reason for commiting a crime. Coming from someone in education, if I even look at a student, gender regardless, in the wrong way, or say something that may lead to a certain thought pattern, I have action taken against me immediately, no questions. It somehow makes me wonder how there are so many people who get caught doing this when my workplace takes this so serious and take 100% of preventative measures in making ALL staff aware of dangers, and even offers training on ways to avoid these situations. This bill is definately bogus from someone who works in education, it is just another reason to label a bigger portion of teachers as pedophiles.

Don't get me wrong though, there is some good to this, I just think there should be a little more rules, like limiting who can search, and even as far making them sign an addition contract and take a required training course on the dangers of a "strip search". Seriously, this bill will not fly at my workplace.

Now there's a thought

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 20:00:44 -0700 2006

manage

"Don't get me wrong though, there's some good to this." Let me break it to you gently. There's no good to this, unless that is, you're an authoritarian pedophile. Give me a frickin' break. Unless you're for summary strip searches for all citizens by police when walking down the street, this is wrong. If this passes, America will choose death before dishonor. Continue at your own peril.

Now there's a thought

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 20:01:04 -0700 2006

manage

"Don't get me wrong though, there's some good to this." Let me break it to you gently. There's no good to this, unless that is, you're an authoritarian pedophile. Give me a frickin' break. Unless you're for summary strip searches for all citizens by police when walking down the street, this is wrong. If this passes, America will choose death before dishonor. Continue at your own peril.

Now there's a thought

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 15:05:16 -0700 2006

manage

Truth be told, this information will be put into the student handbook that in Florida is required to have a legal document signed by the parents/gaurdian and the student that they are in complete understanding of the entire handbook. The information will all be there, plain as day, but the problem is still the student do not read this book, most of the students don't give this book to their parents to read, and of the ones that do, maybe half of the parents actually open the book, that does not count the ones that actually read it.

A minor has to have a consent form to be photographed, so I am sure there will a consent form to this as well. But that does not go with not have single teachers being allowed to search a student. Married people cheat on each other every minute of everyday. And I do believe same gender searches are better, but then we have to grill about sexual preference. I think that only administration should be able to consent to this, but only the school nurse / school resource officers, or local law enforcement should be able to conduct such searches.

At any rate, as good of an idea as it sounds, this bill is bogus as all you need is a suspicion to conduct a strip search. My personal opinion is the person who created this bill needs to be shot in the head for giving so much reason for commiting a crime. Coming from someone in education, if I even look at a student, gender regardless, in the wrong way, or say something that may lead to a certain thought pattern, I have action taken against me immediately, no questions. It somehow makes me wonder how there are so many people who get caught doing this when my workplace takes this so serious and take 100% of preventative measures in making ALL staff aware of dangers, and even offers training on ways to avoid these situations. This bill is definately bogus from someone who works in education, it is just another reason to label a bigger portion of teachers as pedophiles.

Don't get me wrong though, there is some good to this, I just think there should be a little more rules, like limiting who can search, and even as far making them sign an addition contract and take a required training course on the dangers of a "strip search". Seriously, this bill will not fly at my workplace.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

zotz

Thu Sep 21 18:43:55 -0700 2006

manage

And how many more kids will be home schooled because of this? (If it passes.)

all the best,

drew

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

atrius

Thu Sep 21 21:05:23 -0700 2006

manage

Three. Most people won't know it happened. Of those who do know, at least half will think it's a good idea as they are that deep in the kool-aid. Of the half that are left, half of those will do nothing, a quarter will bitch and moan, and do nothing. The rest are the parents of the three I mentioned above.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

turtledawn

Fri Sep 22 01:11:56 -0700 2006

manage

and a bunch of us who are aware and do object aren't having kids, for the very reason that I don't want to bring them into this kind of environment and I don't think I can homeschool to my own standards.

Sigh.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

zotz

Fri Sep 22 04:10:10 -0700 2006

manage

You might want to check out these books:

Guerrilla Learning: How to Give Your Kids a Real Education With or Without School

The Teenage Liberation Handbook

I haven't gone down that road for myself, but it is in my back pocket in case... Being in a different country, I have "different" concerns but still.

all the best,

drew

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

turtledawn

Fri Sep 22 13:17:42 -0700 2006

manage

thanks- they sound cool, and i'll stick the link in a folder in case i change my mind ;)

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 20:06:14 -0700 2006

manage

Seriously dude, compared to schools now, you can homeschool to your own standards in your sleep.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

jackie

Fri Jun 15 12:12:38 -0700 2007

manage

you can get great homeschool subjects for your computer it grades them for u  switched on schoolhouse is one and you can work in conjuction with a christian school the subjects you cant teach you can send the student to school to learn them and teach the rest at home

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

pyro9

Fri Sep 22 05:55:13 -0700 2006

manage

The idea is to press enough hot buttons at once to 'jam the elevator'.

The needed meme is that Congress wants to give closet pedophiles a government sanctioned power to fondle and strip any child at any time for any reason.

As far as any claim that 'reasonable suspicion' is required, with so many rules in place, it would be easy enough to manufacture  'reasonable' suspicion of anything at any time.

I note that they didn't bother to put any safeguards in place like requiring parental notification before the fact and the parent's right (or even obligation) to be present for the search or perhaps the parent's right to perform the search themselves with a parent selected school official present.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 16:39:59 -0700 2006

manage

There are far too many problems piling up on public education.  The no child, school or teacher left unpunished act has made bad situations worse and good situations focused on tests instead of education.

Homeschooling is looking like a better option for me and I'd make a terrible teacher, but when things continue to degrade in public schools there comes a point where the equilibrium may tip.

I sure hope that I'm wrong, for my kids sake, like I said I'm a terrible teacher.  I don't want to be in a position where I'm their best option.

Terry vs. Ohio

Beryllium Sphere(r)

Thu Sep 21 23:12:34 -0700 2006

manage

For a while now, the court-sanctioned definition of unreasonable search and seizure has allowed police to do a stop-and-frisk under two major restrictions:

• A "reasonable suspicion" test which is further defined as requiring specific and articulable facts (good: "he was running away from a store with a freshly broken window", bad: "I had a hunch")
• The search is conducted for the officer's safety, i.e. a weapons search

So the words "reasonable suspicion" have some case law to define them. It's not carte blanche. If only they'd left out the "threat" of narcotics, making safety the only reason for a search, then it would collapse to school official:student::police officer:adult.

The open question is, what in the name of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is this doing in Federal law?

Terry vs. Ohio

AB3A

Fri Sep 22 07:46:24 -0700 2006

manage

...[W]hat...  is this doing in Federal law?

I would like to know that too.  I can envision states crafting laws on this, but I fail to see why the Feds are involved before the states have even gone there.

Keeping the Federal laws off this issue does three things:

1) It allows for States to craft laws differently from each other to meet specific needs.

2) It enables the Federal Courts to evaluate what each state does on a case by case basis, measured against the Constitution, with no prior confusion or encumberance.  

3) It builds to a situation where various ideas can be tested for constitutionality.  In the long run, this benefits the nation as a whole, and it keeps state laws reasonably honest, knowing that they could get struck down by federal courts. 

One thing I want to point out is that in the Bad Old Days of the 1950s, when even a teacher could administer corporal punishment on a whim, this would not have been an issue.  What has happened since then is that the rights of a student have slowly percolated in to the school grounds.  And this is not a bad thing. 

However, the rights of the single student must be balanced against the rights of the many students for a safe, healthy environment where they can learn.  I think this is possible without resorting to extreme measures such as an immediate strip search whenever a principal's hair blows the wrong way. 

I'm writing this with as much at stake as anyone.  I have three children, two already in school, and one starting pre-school.  My wife takes care of our children full time.  If this kind of nonsense keeps up, I may have to consider the alternative of home schooling more seriously. 

 

Terry vs. Ohio

duhavid

Fri Sep 22 08:21:31 -0700 2006

manage

Here is, I think, a better question;  Who wrote this bill, who introduced it?

Bet it will be another bill that no one owns.

Terry vs. Ohio

Beryllium Sphere(r)

Fri Sep 22 14:28:09 -0700 2006

manage

Geoff Davis, R-KY. Randy Kuhl, R-NY. And a "Mr. Kirk", who might be Mark Kirk, R-IL.

Terry vs. Ohio

duhavid

Fri Sep 22 16:37:57 -0700 2006

manage

Well, I was wrong.  Both Davis and Kuhl have this on the front pages of
their web sites.

Terry vs. Ohio

ehrichweiss

Sat Sep 23 14:14:23 -0700 2006

manage

Cool, one of them was from Kentucky, I'm going to make sure that the fine citizens of this (police) state are aware of this IMMEDIATELY. I pick my kids up from school every day so getting parents and teachers involved will take little effort on my part especially since some of the teachers are also parents. I'll get some of my other friends to help out at other schools and since he is local, we can easily let him realize how unlikely re-election will be here. I just KNEW that taking on the guise of a "concerned citizen" would pay off one day. I must make a note to thank Jello Biafra for cluing me in on that phrase and sparking the idea to use it to make change for everyone's best interests.

Terry vs. Ohio

jackie

Fri Jun 15 12:16:20 -0700 2007

manage

a republican

 

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

deek

Thu Sep 21 23:32:18 -0700 2006

manage

In other news .... Porn script writers experience a renaissance, as they discover a new flimsy plot device to exploit.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 14:58:41 -0700 2006

manage

An attempt to randomly search me will result in me resisting until they relinguish or I am arrested.
An attempt to forcibly strip search me will be met with force, a lot of it. If they persist, it will be met with lethal force.
Do we really want the gym teacher being able to randomly strip search the cheerleaders?

A lot of lives could be ruined by this.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 15:24:59 -0700 2006

manage

We aren't talking about Terry in this situation, this is more of a matter of Federalism. State's have ultimate control over their individual school systems, so Federal regulation has little water, and if challenged would probably get thrown out. See US v. Lopez, I think that arguement holds a lot more weight these days than 4th Amendment approaches which have been giving more leeway to the authorities in recent years. In the Supreme Court, a federalism argument would convince the Court a lot quicker than a 4th Amendment argument, despite both being valid.

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 16:10:41 -0700 2006

manage

This is an outrage!! As a parent YES I am concerned about my childrens' safety but aI am also concerned about thier privacy!  If this passes I will take my kids out of the public fool system faster than you can say "Bush is a tool"

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 17:26:41 -0700 2006

manage

Interestingly, the original study (it appears to be http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2005/2005002.pdf) shows decreasing trends for weapons and drugs since 1993.  So, I wonder why we need this law?

Student Strip Search Bill goes to Senate

bskahan

Sat Sep 23 20:14:41 -0700 2006

manage

Yes, why do we need this law? Why do drug dealers put D.A.R.E stickers on their bumpers? Why do child molesters join police fraternal societies? Why do certain people feel the need to be above the law?