Tens of Millions of TV Guide On Screen Devices will stop working in one year. Sony DVRs to become us

Technocrat

Tens of Millions of TV Guide On Screen Devices will stop working in one year. Sony DVRs to become us

Bruce Perens

Tue Dec 25 23:53:51 -0800 2007

Electronic+Freedom.

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Many high-end consumer video devices with TV Guide On Screen will stop displaying program guides as PBS stations complete their HDTV cut-over, which must by law take place by February 11, 2009. TVGOS is the product of Gemstar (stock symbol GMST), itself currently being acquired by Macrovision. It gets its data through a hidden signal on PBS stations - the old-style analog stations, which will themselves go away during February of 2009.

Cable TV systems generally provide their own channel guide. No converters have been announced for those who get their signal from an antenna to continue to use their TVGOS devices, and this would be a separate converter from the one that makes HDTV reception possible.

The Sony DHG-HDD250 and DHG-HDD500 HDTV hard disk recorders (and some other consumer devices) have TVGOS as the sole means of setting their clock. These devices will become useless in 2009 unless new firmware is released. It is not known if the Sony devices can be made to download TVGOS data from digital stations.

Gemstar's web site claims that 25 Million households have TVGOS devices. I'd expect some class-action suits from this.

A new version of the guide data service that makes use of digital television stations made its debut in 2006. Some new consumer devices may implemnent it, but there is little potential to retrofit older devices.

it's simple

Thomas Lord

Wed Dec 26 00:27:05 -0800 2007
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broadcast analog is good for public safety and the current expiry is bullshit. hell in a handbasket time.

-t

it's simple

Bhima

Wed Dec 26 06:43:16 -0800 2007
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In Austria we switched over to digital some time ago. We have a variety of digital television services one of which is digital terrestrial (DVB-T). All that's required to receive this signal can be stuck on a USB stick with a tiny antenna. I have one from Elgato. Given how easy it is to switch over and the benefits digital signaling has over analog signaling I don't see why digital terrestrial can not serve the same public safety needs as broadcast analog.

it's simple

duhavid

Wed Dec 26 07:22:41 -0800 2007
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It probably could. But there are ( in the US ) a huge number of existing
analog receivers already deployed. Nothing to buy, it is already bought.
Nothing to manufacture, it has all been in place for a while.

it's simple

Bhima

Wed Dec 26 07:32:28 -0800 2007
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Surely much the same could be said about any supplanted technology and that technology's demise didn't bring about the end of the world.
Besides don't most tellys have both analog and digital receiving capabilities these days?

Not at our house..

the_rajah

Wed Dec 26 07:59:04 -0800 2007
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We have one large LCD HDTV. The rest are analog and several years old. When we have a weather emergency involving a power outage, such as an ice storm or tornado, we get good use out of a little B&W set that runs from C cells. It served us very well when we had our tornado in March of 2006. We took it to the basement with us and were able to watch the storm on radar and get updated ETA information for our area, which was right-on. In my experience it's a valuable resource that's going black shortly. I guess I'll be looking for a portable, battery operated digital set if anyone is making them.

Not at our house..

Bhima

Wed Dec 26 09:14:43 -0800 2007
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I've got to be missing something.
Doesn't that LCD HDTV have a digital receiver? Aren't all of those Tellys connected to set-top boxes from you sat or cable provider?
Surely there will be free over-the-air digital terrestrial emergency weather broadcasts in the US. I haven't had a power outage longer than seconds in 7 years but if I did I'd be using my MacBook Pro & DVB-T adapter not some old funky telly. Finally I'd have a use for the UPS & solar array which I own but don't really use.
Also I am *really* happy to have long since moved out of areas which have tornadoes!

Yes, the 42" LCD set is digital.. What you're missing is that ...

the_rajah

Wed Dec 26 09:48:30 -0800 2007
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I'm not going to lug it to the basement when there's dangerous weather and it's not battery powered anyway. I have a generator, but it's out in the garage to deploy after the storm. It doesn't help me during the storm.

There aren't set-top boxes on any of our other sets and certainly not for the little 5" portable B&W battery operated one. We've opted to stay with basic cable since we're not interested in pay-per-view or the "premium" channels so we have no set-top boxes. None of them are in the basement, either.

I'm glad you have reliable power. We don't even though we're in a medium sized city. Our residential branch circuit is mostly above ground so it's susceptible to tree and ice damage and it's a low priority for repair as it's only residential and not commercial. It was frustrating when we were without power for a week to see lights come on across the street a day after the storm. Their power feed comes from a main street with businesses on it.

Here in the states, where I assume you're not located, we do have terrestrial FM weather radio broadcasts in the 160 MHz band from NOAA, the new name for the weather bureau. They have a mode where the radio is normally squelched, but it can activate in response to weather alerts and warnings for an area that encompasses several counties and is not as informative as TV.

The local analog over the air TV station has outstanding weather emergency coverage and had a locally generated tracking map on the screen that showed estimated times when the tornadoes would be at a given location. They also have a steerable camera part way up their tower that, in day time, can actually show the weather from a bird's eye view. This was much better information than the larger coverage of the NOAA station.

I'm a ham and also monitor the 2 meter band repeater that the storm watchers use and report my conditions when it is useful. We also have warning sirens within a block of my house that sound if there's a warning for our immediate area.

To sum it up, of course, we have multiple warnings, even without the TV, but I've found our local TV channel to be superior in the detailed information it provides and I lament the demise of it's being available during those rare times when it is so useful. I'm sure there'll be a work-around. The notion of a USB TV tuner is one possibility, although the laptop battery runs about 3 hours while our little TV ran for a couple of days on a set of C cells.

Yes, the 42" LCD set is digital.. What you're missing is that ...

Bhima

Wed Dec 26 10:27:21 -0800 2007
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Much of you comment I had already considered. But it boils down to when your local TV station switches to DVB-T you will have to replace that old B&W portable.
or have they said they will stop broadcasting entirely when they cease analog broadcasts?

Yes, the 42" LCD set is digital.. What you're missing is that ...

MegaZone

Wed Dec 26 13:36:55 -0800 2007
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Well, not DVB-T - the US uses ATSC.

truck stop

zogger

Wed Dec 26 10:09:00 -0800 2007
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Go to your nearest highway large truckstop that has a big store inside. They have a *huge* variety of 12 VDC appliances that they sell to truckers, at least around here they do, the interstate truckstops anyway. They very well might have what you are looking for, just depends. I was in one the other day and was glancing at their stuff and they had a big variety of TVs, radios, little fridges and cookers, etc, a couple of aisles full really, but I didn't really check too close either. We are in the same position with all analog TVs and I also rely on my battery operated sets (one five inch, one sony watchman, which is just *cool* and gets better reception with a rod antenna than my regular sets with an outside tower antenna-go figger...) for the weathermap when there are big storms, so I'll be looking to get a replacement digital one soon myself. I imagine I'll keep our two large analog CRT color sets just to watch tapes and DVDs with though, but perhaps maybe get one of those perverter things to get digital. We'll see how the market goes, we are promised two 50 buck credit card things from joe government to purchase the converters so I might do that if it is a net wash-free-in price. Buying an all brand new large screen set is not in my budget right now, very, very low priority, just don't watch that much TV any more. GF does more than me, so if she wants one she can save up her egg money or whatever...heh. I'd much rather drop the destined-for-electronics cash on a new laptop than on a TV, which I might, maybe one of those eeePC things or something that gets good battery mileage, or even the OLPC XO if they just come out with the direct to consumer model and be done with it to get economies of scale going better.

truck stop

MegaZone

Wed Dec 26 13:47:40 -0800 2007
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Actually $40 coupons, not $50 - up to two per household.

it's simple

duhavid

Wed Dec 26 08:18:48 -0800 2007
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" Besides don't most tellys have both analog and digital receiving capabilities these days?"

To be sure, they do. But

A: what future use will this be when the channels they receive are bought by Verizon?
B: looking further out, if you manufactured TV's would you continue to put such a
      receiver in your units? No, it would be silly, so, in a few decades they will be
      phased out.

it's simple

Bhima

Wed Dec 26 10:13:24 -0800 2007
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A: A terrible calamity to be sure, but surely no different from the status quo of cable or sat.
B: This is essentially what I do at my house where I drive the telly from an AppleTV.

it's simple

duhavid

Wed Dec 26 11:25:55 -0800 2007
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A: not quite, as CaTV requires the cable, it may not be available in certain kinds of disasters.
      Where with broadcast, all that is needed is electricity.

B: Your Apple TV will likely be less than useful in a disaster.

it's simple

rubycodez

Wed Dec 26 21:54:20 -0800 2007
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When I lived in Rockford IL the cable of the cable TV went dead quite often during severe storms, sometimes for more than a day. With cable I'm tied to the power and redundancy capabilities of a single place, whereas with TV I can receive a few cities.

Where I am now I can even receive stations from two different states besides my own, picture and sound full of static and uncolored but intelligible. That could be important during an emergency.

it's simple

rubycodez

Wed Dec 26 22:11:32 -0800 2007
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the people without much money are the largest users of analog television in the U.S., they can't just run out and buy gizmos for laptops they don't own and subscription services or plop down $120 on a whim for a portable digital TV. Even $40 off a device to convert may be rough for them if the converter cost $65 or $85 (and do those include wires for hookups to the older sets or is a $8 trip to Radio Shack also in order?).

I went through an 11 month time in my life when money was extraordinarily tight, no income but still had outgo for basic needs for wife and kids. Aside from turning me into a cheap-ass rat bastard who buys things used and now runs things into the ground beyond repair before replacement time, that also makes me conscious of how at least some things are from perspective of poorer people.

Alright, so where is the Stuff?

rubycodez

Wed Dec 26 13:15:21 -0800 2007
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Where are the magic boxes to convert us "older" (you call four years old???!!!!) television owners over? (we dumped cable tv a while ago, waste of money and price more than doubled in a couple years, the money grubbing bastards) The voucher application program is supposed to run Jan 1 through March 31, that's starting one week away. Has the NTIA picked a contractor to run the program? where is the web site to apply? where are the boxes??

????????????????????????????????????

Alright, so where is the Stuff?

MegaZone

Wed Dec 26 13:45:18 -0800 2007
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Some of the boxes: http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/19/philips-dtv-converter-boxes-get-approved-pictured/
More info: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/press/2007/DTVretailers_121107.html
The coupon request website doesn't go live until January 1, 2008: http://www.dtv2009.gov/

Alright, so where is the Stuff?

rubycodez

Wed Dec 26 14:16:48 -0800 2007
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thanks for the links!

though I notice the first one doesn't exactly have a "add to cart" button 8D

So it seems from the middle of the 2nd link that IBM was awarded the coupon program admin contract

Wonder if that's Jan 1 EST, we can all hit that website (<-quick draw clicky link for everyone's convenience) 0.1 seconds after the ball drops in NYC.

Tens of Millions of TV Guide On Screen Devices will stop working in one year. Sony DVRs to become us

Equally Wrong

Sat Dec 29 19:00:13 -0800 2007
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As far as the DHG-HDDXXX series is concerned, I'm not concerned at all. Sony is very good about consumer support in a situation like this. I suspect, if need be, there will be a mail in program to have your DVR updated with a new firmware. So, the FUD around whether your device will turn into a hunk of metal should be squashed in the bud.