When Map Directions go Bad

Matthew Lange

Mon Dec 03 20:22:47 -0800 2007

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How about that one spot in London where it takes drivers through a boat-launch dock and through a river to the other side?

Or the one where it leads drivers up a hill and off a cliff?

When Map Directions go Bad

TykeClone

Mon Dec 03 20:28:03 -0800 2007

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I go to a user group meeting in Fargo once in a while. At one of these things, I was talking to one of the locals, and they were talking about GM's OnStar and how it worked in their rural areas.

In that area of the country, ice fishing is apparently a big thing to do during the winter. Once the ice is thick enough, one can drive their truck (their new OnStar equipped truck) out onto the ice to their icehouse and park it there while fishing.

This guy locked his keys in the truck and had to call OnStar. Apparently, they grab the GPS location of your vehicle when sending the unlock codes, and the poor operator took a look at the map and said "Dude - did you know that you're in the middle of a lake?"

How to be taken off GPS

Michael Smith

Tue Dec 04 01:05:13 -0800 2007

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I suppose they mean the maps which get sold to vehicle owners. I image you would have to pay to be taken off there.

They could consider jamming GPS, which is really easy to do, given the low power levels involved. For the slightly more sophisticated local town hacker there is the prospect of broadcasting a competing GPS signal and sending the offending drivers to a place you would prefer they go.

The above should be taken with a grain of salt. You don't want B747's doing sharp turns over your town because you hacked GPS, and you still want the fire brigade, police, etc to be able to find the place in an emergency.

When Map Directions go Bad

GuyFawkes

Tue Dec 04 04:45:20 -0800 2007

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This is actually a major issue.

Most of the audience is probably american, so unless they have visited england and spend some time here off the beaten tourist / business track, they won't get this.

I recently quit a driving job, go to google maps
View Larger Map

My route covered this entire area, now, with the exception of the M5 motorway and the A30 dual carriageway, there isn't a single road there that does not have at least one point where two trucks cannot pass each other in the road width available, and this is the "main" roads.

Get into the back roads and a regular car like a olds delta88 will be whacking both hedgerows with the wing mirrors at the same time.

The trouble we have is road classification by number, and "A" road such as the A38 dual carriageway (2 lanes each side, hard shoulder, central reservation with armco) is treated the same as the A382, satellite below.

View Larger Map

The software doesn't differentiate between the two.

The problem actually gets a lot worse than this, the software assumed you can make the same speed on both roads, so truck drivers and tachometers have even greater problems.

As far as not seeing this, you turn off a major road down one of these routes and everything looks fine for a few hundred yards, let's take the A382 above, you turn off the A30 at Whiddon Down and head towards Moretonhampstead / Chagford, 300 yards off the A30 you are committed, there is no opportunity to turn an arctic around until you pass the choke points indicated in the satellite pic, and of course having tried to get your truck through the series of choke points (note, this area is hilly too, it ain't a parking lot, you can't just back a truck out of there even if there was no traffic behind you) and found somewhere where you could in theory turn around, that area is blocked with traffic, part of which you just contributed to.

The GPS software has seen the INTERFACE go through radical changes, but the ROUTING algorithms haven't changed since before microsoft bought out autoroute, and none of them differentiate between the rules of routing a PCB and planning a traffic route, on a PCB all tracks 0.1" wide are equal, in autoroute all roads with an A designation are equal.

When Map Directions go Bad

maethorechannen

Tue Dec 04 05:55:07 -0800 2007

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I don't think it's just road classification that causes the GPSs to go nuts, I think the blanket 60mph speed limit has an impact as well. My Garmin constantly leads me down narrow country B roads instead of major A roads and I'm convinced it's because it thinks I can do 60 down those B roads (even though 20 feels suicidal).

While I'm complaining about the Garmin, it also doesn't handle roundabouts all that well. I often find that it doesn't give information about roundabouts early enough to change to the appropriate lane for entering the roundabout.

I think the reason why we haven't seen advances in routing is that the current software is good enough for most American roads. Localization just consists of changing the text and speech files and not the underlying algorithms to deal with different road "styles" (for want of a better term)

When Map Directions go Bad

Charles E Hill

Tue Dec 04 06:45:01 -0800 2007

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I've spent some time in Portsmouth and the surrounding area.  I was amazed at the number of streets where only one direction of traffic could go.  You simply stopped before entering, looked to see if it was clear, then went.  If someone was coming, you waited until they were clear.

You also drove very carefully.  Cars were  parked on both sides of the street and there was maybe a handspan of clearance on both sides.  Luckily I was driving one of those cute little wind-up toys that Europeans call cars, and it was able to fit.

When Map Directions go Bad

GuyFawkes

Tue Dec 04 08:17:18 -0800 2007

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Portsmouth, bah, those roads are practically interstates when compared to devon lanes....

A devon lane usually has hedges over 6 feet high, the hedges themselves are stone or packed earth and stone, with green shrubs overgrowing them.

Road surface is usually dirty, moulding leaves, manure, mud.

The centre of the road is green, growing stuff.

The road often takes right angled turns around the corners of fields.

The road often has serious inclines, devon is hilly.

The road only has to be 78 inches wide, before the growth on the hedges encroaches, to be classed as suitable for motor traffic.

It is a common experience to drive down a devon road and hear the wing mirrors on both sides simultaneously slapping through the foliage on the hedges.

Here is a fairly representative pic... http://www.dorset.angielski.co.uk/dorsetcountrylane.jpg

Must upload some video to google video

When Map Directions go Bad

Michael Smith

Tue Dec 04 13:17:54 -0800 2007

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Portsmouth, bah, those roads are practically interstates when compared to devon lanes....

 

This is the thing. Many "roads: in England would be called "back lanes" in Melbourne, Australia and they are not on google maps. I know the sort of roads which you British guys are talking about. I have driven on them in England and Ireland.

 

Perhaps Google street view will help eventually. Your GPS could give you a picture of the "road" you intend to use and you might decide not to bother.

When Map Directions go Bad

gstovall

Tue Dec 04 15:43:57 -0800 2007

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Whew!  And I thought my country lane was narrow, at 16 ft wide.  Of course, that was before 2004, when the roadway was widened to 28 ft. (with a 50 ft right of way).  Still a dirt road, but with plenty of room to pass...

Shoot...my garage entrance is 18 ft wide.  That must feel like a highway to y'all!

When Map Directions go Bad

maethorechannen

Tue Dec 04 11:21:16 -0800 2007

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You also drove very carefully.

Tourist ;-)

When Map Directions go Bad

Charles E Hill

Tue Dec 04 14:23:48 -0800 2007

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No, the "I'll pull into the right lane and get out of people's way --oh CRAP!" showed me to be a tourist.  :-)

When Map Directions go Bad

fmerenda

Tue Dec 04 12:06:54 -0800 2007

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This happens at least once a week at our house outside of Asheville, NC.
We live on a gravel road, and it stops at my house. It's blocked off and continues a few hundred yards on the other side of the woods, it's been that way for years, at least since the 70's. At least once a week we get some poor delivery guy turning around at the end of our driveway....

Google maps actually shows it correctly, where the road stops and begins again, and the only access is from the other side. I guess it's the GPS systems that are all off....

Map wiki?

Julian Brookes

Wed Dec 05 07:40:59 -0800 2007

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I wonder if there's a map or map data site that's editable in the manner of wikipedia, so that locals can fix such cases directly.

Map wiki?

zm

Wed Dec 05 08:14:53 -0800 2007

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Like http://www.tomtom.com/mapshare ?

Map wiki?

Julian Brookes

Wed Dec 05 15:35:04 -0800 2007

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I was thinking of one that had a web interface and was not tied to a particular product.

GPS is not the pilot - YOU ARE.

wowbagger

Wed Dec 05 11:04:52 -0800 2007

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I wish people would get one simple fact hammered through their thick but tiny skulls:

If you are sitting behind the steering wheel,
YOU ARE THE PILOT IN COMMAND

• The GPS is not the pilot.
• The person in the passenger seat is not the pilot.
• The person in the back seat is not the pilot.
• The person on the other end of the phone is not the pilot.
• The person in the car in front of you is not the pilot.

YOU ARE THE PILOT IN COMMAND

I use the term "pilot in command" rather than "driver" because "driver" has lost all its importance: people view "driving" as "something you do, y'know, at the same time as you do important stuff." Driving a car is serious business - in many ways as serious as piloting a plane.

If my GPS tells me to turn down a dirt road and I am not expecting to take a dirt road, I stop and recheck things. I don't just blindly drive down a dirt road, especially if I am in a big rig of some sort.

All these morons who blindly hand their command authority over to a five dollar CPU and follow its directions without thought deserve to be sunk up to the door handles in mud: it will keep them the hell off the road!