First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

duhavid

Sun May 06 18:25:32 -0700 2007

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It is often pointed out that communism fails because it did not take into account human nature.

Unrestricted capitalism also fails, and for the same reason.  See above.  Some will argue
that the market will correct this.  Maybe, but not until after some damage is done.
And nothing stops the people involved from shutting down this business, wink wink,
starting another one, and doing the same thing.  New company name, no information
for the market to work from, until it is too late, then they can begin the cycle again.


In answer to your question on the last line, because we are not smart enough.  I mean, how
long did it take before the lighter petroleum product stopped being flared off in the open
doing nothing.  We cant stop whaling when the species is endangered.  We cant keep our
industrial byproducts out of our food and drinking water.

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

proletariat

Sun May 06 19:44:43 -0700 2007

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I recall seeing a 60 Minutes segment on ethylene glycol being used in medical products several years ago.  I can't remember the context right now.

natural gas is what was being flared off and the reason is that it's difficult to ship to where it can be used and  it requires a large investment to liquify and transfer to a shipping facility and the world has only recently even had shipping facilities for liquified natural gas.

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

duhavid

Sun May 06 19:56:46 -0700 2007

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The natural gas could have been burned to heat water, produce steam, and
reduce the electrical usage of the plant..

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

Uncle Entity

Sun May 06 20:14:50 -0700 2007

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...communism fails because it did not take into account human nature.
Unrestricted capitalism also fails, and for the same reason.

If you actually read the article you would find they talked about two similar cases, one in China and one in Panama. The one in China was prosecuted fully according to Chinese law. The one in Panama has not been prosecuted in China or even investigated because a state run export company was involved. I really fail to see how this failure is due to either communism or unrestricted capitalism, it seems China has laws to prevent this kind of thing but is merely covering its ass in the Panama case.

This is clearly a case of fraud which the unrestricted capitalists believe should be governed by law. They also believe that coercion and theft should be illegal because these three things change the market dynamics in favor of the person using such techniques. So in a truly free market this would still be illegal and the perpetrator would be prosecuted for his crimes.

Its much easier to just blame the 'system' though...

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

duhavid

Sun May 06 21:59:08 -0700 2007

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My point is that greed can lead to people doing bad things, and the market
does not limit these things well, and only after the fact.

My post was very critical, I know,  I suggest that the only way to something
better ( and I believe something better is out there, we just have not
arrived there yet ) is to study what we have, and be aware of where it
falls down.

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

Morosoph

Mon May 07 03:54:18 -0700 2007

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As long as we (eg. governments) don't act prior to the exercise of will, all corrections will be "after the fact"; as what was happenning is illegal, "unrestricted capitalism" is a red herring.

More generally, it is often the case that the market's failure to respond to a risk simply reflects that it isn't as irrational as humans generally are, pushing their politicians to respond to the latest scare. Of course there's such a think as market failure; it particular, the incentives must be there, but market and government failure should always be weighed together. I find that this rarely happens, for faith (usually in good or ill will, rather than the efficiency of a system) overwhelms it.

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

duhavid

Mon May 07 08:09:27 -0700 2007

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Looking at this as a system, we, I think, overincentivize some things, which
lead to decision making like that that led to the tainted products.  My point is
that if we desensitize that input a bit ( not to zero ), would would have fewer
( not zero ) of these kinds of decisions.

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

duhavid

Sun May 06 22:30:14 -0700 2007

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My point is that greed can lead to people doing bad things, and the market
does not limit these things well, and only after the fact.

My post was very critical, I know,  I suggest that the only way to something
better ( and I believe something better is out there, we just have not
arrived there yet ) is to study what we have, and be aware of where it
falls down.

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

President4242

Mon May 07 09:08:12 -0700 2007

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This is clearly a case of fraud which the unrestricted capitalists believe should be governed by law.

Until somebody points out that intellectual property related to advertising and pricing is in fact fraud- at which point I've noticed that most unrestricted capitalists back off.   Lie by ommission and it's OK to them- having a market at all requires it, because why would somebody buy a good or service they could easily create for themselves?  But it's still a lie, and therefore fraud.

Besides- any unrestricted market is defacto a deregulated industry- and after what we've seen with banks and energy in the 1990s, do we really want more deregulated industries?

Capitalism's Problems?

zotz

Mon May 07 17:12:15 -0700 2007

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As a first cut, should we limit share ownership to humans only and ban corporations from owning shares in other corporations?

all the best,

drew

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

pyro9

Sun May 06 21:22:40 -0700 2007

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The difficulty these days with the market correcting much of anything is that it's too easy to hide the relevant information. Between all of the rebranding and the practically non-existant enforcement of truth in advertising laws how is a consumer supposed to make an informed choice? Without informed choice the market will correct nothing.
 

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

phred14

Mon May 07 05:07:31 -0700 2007

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Mod parent post up. (Oops, this isn't Slashdot.)

Still, the point must stand that too much of today's "free market" in the US functions on information hiding to truly be a free market. You have to add to the things pyro9 mentions all of the court actions where the complete resolution has been sealed, as well as the sealed details of contracts that the likes of Microsoft and Intel use to maintain their monopoly and near-monopoly positions.

First tainted wheat, now tainted medicine

Richard.Neal

Mon May 07 06:03:49 -0700 2007

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I work for an electronics company that has factories in China and none of this is new to me. When we produce any products based on parts from Chinese suppliers everything is tested  because unlike western nations there are little if any controls or certifications. Just to give you an idea we received some samples from a supplier for testing and they worked fine, then we ordered the same parts in larger quantities only to find months later they failed under use, later research into the matter showed the supplier had taken some short cuts and not notified us of the changes. Don't get me wrong, not all Chinese made products are rubbish but purchasing based on price alone is a great way of of comiting corporate suicide.