Technocrat

The Amnesia Drug

zogger
Sun Jul 01 10:29:48 -0700 2007
Chemistry.
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Medical researchers say they have found an existing drug used to treat for hypertension can also block selected memories if it is given at a precise time when the patient is actively recalling something. They say this could be useful for example to help rape victims or other folks suffering traumatic stress, like returning vets.

ed: This has the potential to be both greatly useful as pointed out in the article or terribly destructive and ripe for criminal abuse. Both. I don't think it takes much of an imagination to see the military or criminal use aspects of this, such as a step towards the perfect assassin (the unabomber was a CIA mkultra drug experiment volunteer I just found out, or so it is claimed with some good evidence) or high stakes robber or for ethnic cleansing or some terrorist attack where the badguys want maximum destruction with none of their guys having second thoughts about it or recalling it, i.e., plausible deniability. Headed that direction anyway, the programmable human. Spooky stuff.

.."A new report published by the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology, which advises MPs about scientific advances, warned that regulations need to be put in place to restrict the use of any memory-blocking drugs, imposing strict limits on their prescription."...more thought deleting at the link

The Amnesia Drug
Tim Post
Sun Jul 01 11:15:58 -0700 2007
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I'm not sure how we can possibly determine the long term effects of something on something that we barely understand :) I don't care if I saw Janet Reno naked, I'm not taking the blue pill.
The Amnesia Drug
pyro9
Sun Jul 01 12:11:44 -0700 2007
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The memory effect of propranolol does sound creepy from the article, but in reality isn't THAT extreme. As a beta blocker, it has been used since the '50s for high blood pressure and other conditions.

From the sound of it, it doesn't seem to actually do anything to the mechanism of the brain itself. Instead, it creates a sort of false calm while recalling a traumatic memory so that next time it's not recalled so intensely. Valium may have a similar effect (and should be examined). If so then the mechanism is actually fairly well understood.

In any event, it's certainly not a new drug.

U0126 OTOH is an investigational chemotherepy drug, and so sounds a lot more dangerous to try for PTSD and probably has a different mechanism.
The Amnesia Drug
Tim Post
Sun Jul 01 12:26:42 -0700 2007
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What's the typical sampling on the curve that shows long term effects on drugs? If something went to market approved in 1980, I'm assuming there's a short term plan for studies and controls but never hear much about long term unless people start complaining and a link is found.

Are there any kinds of mandatory studies? Are these things tracked relationally so cause and effects in coctail therapies can be bisected properly? I just really feel that before we even talk about what [these types of] drugs could be doing, we should be talking about the system tracking it and how awesome it is. This is the single most irreplaceable part of our anatomy I wish they'd use theirs when working on our's.

Well funded research is getting rather presumptuous, regardless. Recently annoyingly so. A degree is always expected as investors want confidence, but lately its just nuts what these guys sign off on as well thought out. I have been bitching about this since zoloft, just the first time whining about it here.
The Amnesia Drug
pyro9
Sun Jul 01 15:06:12 -0700 2007
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As far as I know, long term effects are barely monitored if at all, at least formally. It is a sad state of affairs.
However, in this case, we have a 50 year history of wide use already.  In spite of the lack of formal tracking, any really serious problems would have  probably come out by now.  Since the patents are long gone, there is little motive for coverup or studious ignorance of adverse effects.
The Amnesia Drug
Spider
Sun Jul 01 16:31:29 -0700 2007
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Janet who?
The Amnesia Drug
Tim Post
Sun Jul 01 11:16:07 -0700 2007
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I'm not sure how we can possibly determine the long term effects of something on something that we barely understand :) I don't care if I saw Janet Reno naked, I'm not taking the blue pill.
The Amnesia Drug
ehrichweiss
Sun Jul 01 11:22:22 -0700 2007
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It appears that you already have..;)
The Amnesia Drug
Tim Post
Sun Jul 01 12:17:13 -0700 2007
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No no, I assure you no memory altering substances were involved. Just healthy fat fingers. I was doing my best to read some papers published on something called Neurogenesis, I wish I could find the link to share them. It talked about our brains being fond of contiguous space for storage in a manner of speaking.

My concern is it doesn't seem like anyone thought about how the brain feels about marking bad sectors. Given that it controls a self healing organism (err, the body), it might object a bit. We also don't know if we're blocking everywhere the 'write' is happening. There's just no good reason to give this stuff to people unless its under the plain guise of "Hey, wanna play with your brain? You might forget things you always wished you could. In 10 years you may oink like a pig every time you see the color green -"

I don't often come down on any researcher individually because I do not know them and they probably know more than I do. I do feel equipped to be rather critical of some fields of study when I feel that its obvious that they ignored the obvious. This is one of those fields.

We love to interfere in our own evolution so much that I can barely resist accepting that its just part of that process. Still not _quite_ there yet ;)
The Amnesia Drug
ehrichweiss
Sun Jul 01 12:34:46 -0700 2007
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According to what I've read, propranolol has been in existence since the 50's so it's not like it's Fenfen or the like. And while you might not want to use the stuff because this specific usage isn't well documented, it's also obviously not caused any bad mental effects other than to help erase memories.

I personally have plenty of reason to try the stuff out. Without proper medication I have recurring nightmares which wouldn't be "real" problem except I can "sleep punch"(I can't control a dream but I can control my actions within a dream and if the idea comes to punch my enemy then my body tends to follow it as well)...and I've got a mere 30+ years of martial arts training so I could easily harm my wife due to a dream.

I'd be happy with oinking like a pig at the color green if I could get some internal visuals, sounds and feelings reduced to a minimum.
 

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