Legalizing Illegal Drugs

Sat Nov 29 14:33:00 -0800 2008
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Switzerland has been trying innovative solutions to try and help alleviate a lot of the negative social and criminal aspects to drug addiction. One of the trials being tested was supervised heroin use, using clinically clean sources. They have a much lowered crime rate since the experiment was started. The issue is now going to a national referendum, and making heroin be a legal prescription drug is likely to pass.

The program has been criticized by the United States and the U.N. narcotics board, which said it would fuel drug abuse. But governments as far away as Australia are beginning or considering their own programs modeled on the system, which is credited with reducing crime and improving the health and daily lives of addicts. ed.z.: It should be legal anyway, just as a pain killer. And with that said, I don't like drugs, liquid, powdered, whatever, I like my mind clear all the time, but having a war on some drugs is completely nuts. It's beyond bonkers into harmful.

1) Right off the bat it just slap doesn't work, just the raw data shows that, all it does is keep prices ridiculously high and it actually CAUSES crime because of that, it certainly doesn't reduce it. Liquid drug booze prohibition showed us that, but we seem to have failed to learn from history....

2) People by and large around the planet going as far back in time as we have records for show a propensity for liking a buzz of some sort, it is apparently mostly hard coded DNA. Therefore, making it strictly illegal is cuckoo flat earth science

3) Making them legal even with a (cheap, not stupidly high like illegal prices) prescription would go a LONG way to reduce crime, knock the stuffings out of the armed and dangerous and violent drug gangs, would help to reduce the huge amount of official corruption that goes on (billions of dollars respects no particular employee or uniform or job title....they are all human, and the corruption and hypocrisy is rampant), *and* it would dramatically drop a big part of the big brother police state, all at once, stroke of the pen to make things a lot better.

We'd still have the same amount of very casual or daily or medium moderate or hard core addicts, but the cost to society would be a lot less. It is the lesser of evils approach by a long shot. It isn't perfect, but in the either/or situation it would be better than what we have now. The Swiss seem to understand this. We need to get rid of that darth vader "drug warrior" crap pronto, it's the pits. It's dangerous. This has been the classic example of the state creating (or making much worse) a problem in the first place so they can offer some "solution" to the problem.

I don't have any sort of official figures handy, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if 20% of the population teenage or older either uses or has used "illegal" drugs. The theory of the "drug war" is to lock up all them dangerous perps! One fifth or better of the population?? How crazy is that?

I was recently on jury duty, the DA was prosecuting a drug case, he asked the pool how many had a friend or relative who had a "drug problem", dang around one third to a half of the people's hands shot up. Now this shows how stupid this drug war is. One of the next questions was "anyone have a problem sitting on this case"? My hand went up of course. I got bounced from the pool, bye, sent home. A couple other people did as well, that's it. Now I was NOT trying to get out of serving on the jury, just they make you swear to be honest and stuff, so I was. Which now shows again that the "justice" system is stacked against a really fair deal for all concerned when they can cherry pick juries, it should just be random select, that's it, no questions, a peer group of the locals. I understand in some jurisdictions now it is almost impossible to get convictions anymore, people live in areas where a third of the humans living there have been run through the system and are convicted on parole, in prison or dang close, etc. Those areas would rather put up with the illegal nature of it then convict most every other person they know for "breaking the law". I forget the exact article I was reading about that, I think it was in the Baltimore area.

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Sat Nov 29 16:40:35 -0800 2008
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The immediate problem to instigating an alternative approach to "illegal drugs" (from the point of the U.S. of A.) is the time factor it would take to do so.

The US government has spent generations of time on propaganda that in effect social conditioned the general populous into believing the ZERO TOLERANCE line of "drugs are bad."  God himself could come down here tomorrow and say "drugs are not bad," and a large section of the general populous would not / COULD NOT believe it.  They have been conditioned all their life to believe THIS IS FACT.  PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.

(in my not so humble opinion) It literally would take generations of time to undue the social propaganda, and allow a non "war on drugs" policy to take hold.  It would take removing all of the zero tolerance propaganda from the schools, the churches, and the evening news (the worst offender by far). It would have to be spread out over (I'm guessing double the time it took to put in place) at least six to eight generations, for a basic understanding of tolerance to take hold.

Personally speaking, I don't think this would be possible.  To many people hold this as a "core belief," and would fight it as a personal attack on themselves.  If they didn't, they would be admitting one of their core beliefs may be wrong, and therefor they may be wrong.  Most people can't deal with that thought.

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Sat Nov 29 18:19:47 -0800 2008
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The idea isn't to suddenly say drugs aren't bad (mmmm kaaay), just that locking up drug users doesn't help and actually causes crime.

The elephant in the room is that (I'm guessing) MOST people know or knew someone who used drugs at one time who they do not believe should go to jail. (Heck, half the country elected such a person TWICE). It's not that they think the drug use was OK, just that prison would eitther be excessive or not helpful. That doesn't eliminate the war on drugs doublethink, but it does make it very fragile.

I do admit it's amazing the way people stick to
the crazy zero tolerance even when some of it's primary advocates turn out to be closet addicts.

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Sat Nov 29 19:37:45 -0800 2008
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I think the role past drug use played in the recent Presidential elections indicates a good deal about actual usage and actual societal acceptance. It is viewed the same as alcohol; don't abuse it, don't hurt anyone else, and no one really cares much. Most people were concerned about character with Clinton's smoked but did not inhale story. Bush admitted to cocaine, and aside from the MoveOn.org types, no one cared. Obama admitted to both marijuana and cocaine and it ends up never being reported, at least that I heard anyway.

I have met people who do care about others personal habits, but they are definitely a minority. They are the holier/better than you's, those who know better than you how your life should be lived. They are found on the fringe of both the religious and agnostic.

The Wars on {Insert item generating knee jerk response from desired demographic} are to get votes.

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Sat Nov 29 18:18:32 -0800 2008
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Right off the bat it just slap doesn't work

"Don't say I missed, less'n ya know what I was aimin' at!"

The only thing the War On Some Drugs has failed to do is to prevent drug abuse. It has succeeded brilliantly at imprisoning minorities en masse, increasing law enforcement budgets, enriching mobsters, and damaging civil liberties to the point that law enforcement can seize, for their own use, any property they choose without having to make a case to a court first.

I actively fight myself when I steer toward cynicism, but it is hard to resist concluding that the War On Drugs Used By Minorities is working precisely as intended.

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Sat Nov 29 18:32:59 -0800 2008
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You forgot to mention how effective the War On Drugs is at destabilizing third-world governments.  Think for a moment... Drug cartels that are better-financed than the police of their home countries - financed by drug-related crimes by users in the US struggling to afford the high prices - caused by the interdiction-based policy of the War On Drugs.

Come to think of it, heroin/morphine use is now financing the Taliban.  If we moved these people to a prescription basis and let the cost fall, we'd be depriving the Taliban (and presumably Al Qaeda) a source of revenue.  Changing the drug policy is an essential element of the War On Terror.  (And of course some think the War On Terror is as misconceived as the War On Drugs, and it should be handled through time-tried police and intelligence actions.)

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Sun Nov 30 02:26:29 -0800 2008
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The greater problem about legalizing _all_ drugs (which I am totally in favour of) is the economic impact. What happens when you divert the millions of $$$ out of the hands of the slum drug lords? You have a new horde of empoverished but well-armed people...

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Sun Nov 30 20:32:06 -0800 2008
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doubt it, there's no shortage of other industries for the organized crimminal

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Mon Dec 01 02:19:25 -0800 2008
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I think _all_ of the other industries for the organized criminal are _more_ harmful than drug commerce. But that's just me...

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Mon Dec 01 13:52:14 -0800 2008
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I don't know about that- the protection racket can be significantly less harmful, if done right.

Legalizing Illegal Drugs
Wed Dec 03 20:00:27 -0800 2008
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Some years ago a study by a reliable institution determined that if the  money now spent on interdiction and incarceration were instead spent on education and rehabilitation, there would be an improvement in the combatting of drugs by a factor of 7.  I would certainly like to see a pilot program somewhere in this country to try to verify the results of this study.