China Starts Big Jet Company

Beryllium Sphere(r)

Sun May 11 20:44:11 -0700 2008

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What they say about meeting domestic demand and not being a threat to Boeing and Airbus does not make economic sense. The capital costs of launching a new aircraft program are staggering and it's crazy to incur them if you're not going to make the money back by selling as many as possible.

China Starts Big Jet Company

Harry the Bastard

Sun May 11 21:46:47 -0700 2008

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No doubt about it   ... China will be the next superpower. However, Russia has a thriving aircraft manufacturing concern (perhaps several), and have already made aircraft that are way bigger than a jumbo jet. IE: The Russian jet that was made to lift the defunct Russian space shuttle, the thing is frigging HUGE. (Or ... remember the Russian "clone" of the Concorde that crashed at the Paris airshow several years ago along with the controversial circumstances of that crash ... like the french jet that came to close!

Yet most of the western world only see's Russian jets at air shows. So it is not enough to be able to build huge aircraft, there is also the perception the rest of the world has about those aircraft. (rightly or wrongly ...)  

I would guess that Chinese aircraft will be even less desired by major fleet operators. might take more than 100 years for that to change.

China Starts Big Jet Company

President4242

Mon May 12 07:33:46 -0700 2008

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However, if it's only domestic that they're after, the physics involved changes.  Big jets they may be- but more Boeing 727s than the really big Boeing and Airbus jets they're putting out today.

Boeing

zogger

Mon May 12 09:25:56 -0700 2008

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Boeing was one of the first and largest companies to transfer just tons of R&D and capital over to china. when I first heard about that I thought only a matter of time before they just hijack all that. I mean, try to name a product they don't make clones of and then just ignore the original innovator. So, to me, anything that happens to boeing long range is their own fault. With that said, we are more or less stuck now, you want most anything, it will be coming from china. I gave up trying to "buy american" when it comes to manufactured goods, food though, nothing, I won't buy lead based food. At least we can still get domestic food or food from somewhat more rational and friendlier places. I understand a lot of the original ideas of opening up to china and more or less approved..until such a time a few years later when it became obvious that it was always going to be a one way street, china kept tariffs on imports high (except for advanced machine tools, stuff to create wealth with) and no one cared, they allowed them to pirate any IP at will and nothing was done about it, and they never insisted on any quid pro quo with opening their society as a concession for better trade access, they still have no political or religious freedoms, and they are still a military threat and will eventually dominate at least that side of the pacific. I kept hearing internet masterminds who couldn't think past *one* step say their military budget was so low they couldn't do much, etc, yet they failed to equate how much further a buck went there than over in the US. A china 50 billion buck military budget is something like a 500 billion US budget with the added cheapness of getting free IP handed to them in every industry, highest tech to the lowest tech., heck, they get paid to take IP, what's not to like from their perspective? the globalists have now had 30 years to prove their point, and it is epic fail, all we have to show for it is dependence on chinese supply and massive deficits and a crumbling economy based on the broken windows principle of trying to sell repackaged IOUs gussied up under fancy names. Nuts. Glads I am on a farm, I remember my folks stories about the great depression, even totally broke they could still eat, the people in town had to go to soup kitchens and go haunt the railroad tracks looking for coal that fell off the train cars. It happened fast, too, just a few years from booming economy to widespread misery and collapse. china may be going through a little internal reorganization, but frankly, they are right now getting to the point they won't need US customers, they will have enough infrastructure built to handle any manufacturing demand, and where they get their raw materials from and their own internal market will be plenty big enough. they could quite literally write off any US dependence for exports or using dollars. *Real close* now if not already past that point with a transitioning market. The EU is already their major market, that passed the US this year sometime. clues. I think that is what they are doing now, passing dollars to suckers for real stuff around the world while the dollar is still worth something. That's what they are using to buy up all that farmland and mines and oil and natgas supplies with, fast as they can. Frankly, I can't fault the chinese for being smart, it just is, but I can fault our so called political and business leaders for being morons and near traitors over this economy/security issue.

China Starts Big Jet Company

Spider

Mon May 12 00:31:54 -0700 2008

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China has over 8% inflation at the moment.  They are starting to run into the problems facing western countries.  China's workers are wanting to be paid more.  Food is getting expensive.

At the moment they are capable of starting an aircraft building industry especially as everything is government controlled and owned.  As their economy has grown so fast and their industries are booming, does this mean that communism is a better bet than democracy?  Perhaps it is just because they have the world's largest population even with a "one child per family" policy enforced by the government. Numbers count.

Not only are they making inroads into Africa, they have also been courting the small Pacific Island nations with hard cash aid programs. These small nations can only be of "strategic" value, nothing else.

My experience with products made in China has not been that great eg: shoes that can't keep their sole,  shirts and pullovers that to fill the sleeves your nuckles would have to scraping the ground etc.

I think because the US$ is a lot weaker now, it's economy will really pick up over the next decade and so long as it can keep out of wars the good times will return.

China Starts Big Jet Company

Uncle Entity

Mon May 12 03:49:36 -0700 2008

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I think because the US$ is a lot weaker now, it's economy will really pick up over the next decade...

If they let the necessary corrections of the last 25 years of inflationary growth occur we may come out OK. Not looking too good though, this last bust came a whisker away from crashing the entire worldwide banking system and it's still an ongoing thing.

If they would get out of the business of 'managing the economy' and let us return to a place where real savings can lead to real growth the US could return the high growth days like in the 19th century. But, alas, I doubt that will happen so we will turn into an also ran like Europe.

As their economy has grown so fast and their industries are booming, does this mean that communism is a better bet than democracy?

I think you will find that they are moving away from communism to a more open system. Still have a long way to go and a lot of State owned industries but they are on their way.

Another interesting note is that when the US started to run into trouble is when the progressives took over and converted us from a republic to a mob rule democracy. Now nothing is off limits to legislators when before they had strict boundaries set out for them.

My theory on why people don't recognize this is 'living memory', people look at the 50s and 60s as the most prosperous time for the US and the truth isn't taught as it would go against the Big Central Government model that the State wants taught in government monopoly schools. Actual facts show that the economy does best when there is limited government interference and people are free to chart their own paths. This would of course result in a return to better times with a huge amount of politicians and bureaucrats having to look for productive jobs so a democracy we will stay.

What does this have to do with China? Reports are showing they have a pretty free economy in certain sectors that is accounting for huge growth. Also have the issues that come from companies doing business with China not doing due diligence in ensuring the quality of goods being exported. This cost was supposed to have been externalized to the State but they have shown that they are incapable of performing this task but if we only throw more tax dollars at the problem it will go away.

So don't go vote in the Communist Party just yet, the watered down Democrats do a fine job of restricting growth and institutionalizing the 'broken window fallacy'.

China Starts Big Jet Company

Uncle Entity

Mon May 12 02:57:52 -0700 2008

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I read an article a while back that said that China was responsible for something like 35% of the global export market for a long time, then the communists took over and that all changed. Centuries perhaps, I don't remember the exact details.

The BRIC nations do seem to be posed to improve their lot—as long as cheap energy remains cheap that is...

China Starts Big Jet Company

Spider

Mon May 12 17:59:17 -0700 2008

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New Zealand has recently signed a "Free Trade Agreement" with China.  I think, the first "western" nation to do so.  It will be interesting to see how this will benefit your average Kiwi.