one hopes that you are travelling

Thomas Lord

Tue May 13 15:39:31 -0700 2008

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Please say you aren't going to a Starbucks' -- in Berkeley. I mean, are you nuts?

-t

one hopes that you are travelling

Bruce Perens

Tue May 13 15:57:55 -0700 2008

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I was in El Cerrito Plaza, otherwise known as The Mini-Mall With Three Starbucks - a stand-alone one, one in the Barnes and Noble, and one in the Lucky supermarket. There is a Peets across the street from the mall, perhaps that's where you'd have me go.

At the top of Solano Ave., where I might often find myself, there is a Starbucks, a Noah''s Bagels (which is probably more Starbucks), and Peets. I think there may be a Blue Bottle downtown where you can get really good coffee.

one hopes that you are travelling

Thomas Lord

Tue May 13 16:21:30 -0700 2008

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Peet's isn't the only option but, what do you have against them?

Since we're in earshot of the wider audience it is worth mentioning that Starbucks' is basically a spin-off of Peet's and that Peet's maintains a local presence that reflects their origins as thoughtful importers.

Starbucks' just smell funny, soon as you walk into 'em, imo. Goodness help you if you order one of their sugary, flavored-beyond-all-recognition fancy drinks. Peet's has offered some botches from time to time too, especially since they went public, but still seems pretty sane.

Thanks to those to companies, from reports I hear, there are little one-off or a few-off small operation importers / roasters all over. A relative sent us some from Philidelphia, for example. Favor the small guys and favor the firms that actually keep personally involved in and document their supply chains and processes, if you ask me. Starbucks', imo, is on the road to putting up the sign of "over [X] billion served", if you know what I mean.

-t

Starbucks' Little Lie - Freshwashing

angeles13

Tue May 13 15:42:56 -0700 2008

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I have to say... most places, in my opinion, serve better coffee than Starbucks. And that is in taste, quality and just the atmosphere of the shop.

I'm in Seattle, and can't remember the last time I've had one of their coffee drinks.

As for marketing... it appears to be the typical 'handwaving' watch what the right hand is doing and not the left.

Oh wait.. that is politics and news media also.

sharyn

Hey...

zogger

Tue May 13 15:55:48 -0700 2008

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...that's a pretty good news "scoop".

Hey...

Mathinker

Wed May 14 23:34:46 -0700 2008

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Yeah, he really spilled the beans, there, eh?

Yep...

zogger

Fri May 16 15:25:04 -0700 2008

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...they got totally roasted, and came out looking like drips. Their cup of woe runneth over. Maybe they shouldn't get into a froth over it though.

Starbucks' Little Lie - Freshwashing

Anthony Sorace

Tue May 13 17:55:17 -0700 2008

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The marketing executives at Starbucks must think we're all stupid.

well, yeah.

i'm sorry, but their coffee is sub-standard and their prices ridiculous (and their size names astoundingly pretentious). if you're a regular customer, the marketing execs probably do think you're stupid, and - at least as far as your consumer behavior is concerned, which says nothing about the rest of your life, since people behave so strangely as consumers - they're probably right. and if you're not a regular customer, they probably don't really care, since most of their revenue comes from the junkies.

Starbucks' Little Lie - Freshwashing

kacie

Wed May 14 01:06:43 -0700 2008

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I can't believe I signed up for this account just to post this comment about a job that I hate a little bit right now, but the big 5lb. bags (that had been on display in the lobby for the last six weeks) have the date that the beans were roasted written on them. And there is a sign behind the counter saying the date the beans we're currently using were roasted AND the roasting plant.

There are a ton of things to hate Starbucks over, but this isn't one of them. They're not trying to dupe anyone, not that they need to. The whole point of that marketing plan was to bring back a coffee house vibe rather than the corporate machine everybody knows we are. And hey, next time you call me minimally-skilled I'd think about how most of the baristas are college kids who aren't willing or able to live off their parents like most of the world and need a job with flexible hours. And then I'd show you my acceptance letters to vet school.

Starbucks' Little Lie - Freshwashing

Bruce Perens

Wed May 14 01:59:41 -0700 2008

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The bag I picked up was the 1 lb one, and it definitely said "Scooped On" next to the date. And it was scooped by "Stephanie".  And that's all she wrote :-)

I accept that anyone admitted to vet school is more than minimally skilled. I wouldn't say that for all of your co-workers.

Thanks for checking in.

Bruce

Starbucks' Little Lie - Freshwashing

Uncle Entity

Wed May 14 05:23:09 -0700 2008

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Your effort doesn't have to be wasted as we have in the past discussed veterinary school...

Can't believe I've been posting here for more than a year now, seemed like just yesterday that I darkened Bruce's doorstep.

jobs

zogger

Wed May 14 08:14:30 -0700 2008

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No jobs that cut a check are demeaning. I work a job that is almost universally denigrated on most tech forums and in society-farming-as being for stupid hicks. Man, people need to go to a modern farm, they'll see the best tech out there that is actually valuable and produces wealth for society. I think a lot of work and job prejudice comes from ignorance more than anything else, people who put down other jobs usually haven't done them, because all work can be hard and require good skills. Example, I have been a waiter many times in the past, the concept is completely simple, but there is a BIG difference between a good server and just a mediocre one. Anyway, good luck at vet school! I'd like to learn more myself, been contemplating offering myself as free slave labor as an assistant to some local vets, because I could use the practical knowledge. Are you going to want to concentrate on pets, big animals or industry? Vets who have to make housecalls make the *big bucks*.

skills and vet school

Thomas Lord

Wed May 14 10:27:29 -0700 2008

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It is an "unskilled" or "semi-skilled" job. That doesn't mean that the people doing the job are unskilled -- only that their skills aren't needed for the job. I assume that you aren't trying to find veins on your customers, administer anesthetic, clean their teeth, diagnose their skin conditions, manage your small business (do they still teach that in vet school or is it just assumed you go work for a big corp?), etc.

-t

skills and vet school

Bruce Perens

Wed May 14 14:55:23 -0700 2008

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Actually he or she is administering a stimulant and getting the customer's teeth dirty.

Pike Place Roast

Alan

Wed May 14 04:12:13 -0700 2008

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Looked up "Pike Place Roast"

What a load of hype.

Starbucks' Initiative #5 is to "reinvent the art-form of blending coffee" with a new super-premium coffee blend called Pike Place Roast.

Schultz says it's the highest quality blended coffee they've ever created, and no other coffee company on the planet offers a coffee of this quality. The whole bean coffee will be shipped freshly roasted to every Starbucks.

Schultz describes the blend as "smooth but bold" - Pike Place Roast is going to be introduced in mid-April, and marketed with Starbucks original 1971 logo.

"Super premium"? Well, whatever it tastes like, it must cost the earth.

I've only ever been to a Starbucks once, and was very unimpressed.

Freshwashing? No need to look for a new word. It's called "lying". Or more legalistically, a "false or misleading trade description".

Starbucks' Little Lie - Freshwashing

Eric Prince

Wed May 14 05:34:09 -0700 2008

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Hello everyone,

I read the post and the subsequent comments and had one question. To what would you attribute Starbucks success? I ask considering the 40 million people that happen upon one of their stores a week. Is it consistancy? Is it snobbery? I think there is a place for all to co-exist, but Starbucks started out as a small mom and pop as well. As a marketing and sales person, I have to applaud them for taking a company from 5 locations to 16,000 with a product as ambigous as coffee. I don't know, I like it, but then again, I do kill it with Splenda and cream!

Eric

appeal

zogger

Wed May 14 08:05:21 -0700 2008

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I've only been in the barne's and noble's type of starbucks, and I think that was a good appeal, being able to sit and read a little and sip on some coffee is really nice. Libraries for the most part don't allow food and drink. with that said, we rarely go out and I don't drink a lot of coffee elsewhere than home, so can't comment. I am more inclined to hit a waffle house or huddle house than most any other type of restaurant (ya, old fashioned plain sorta guy), and a lot of them I think have wi-fi now. Huddle house anyway, I know my local one advertises it on a sign out front.

Starbucks' Little Lie - Freshwashing

maethorechannen

Thu May 15 04:07:12 -0700 2008

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I'd attribute thier success to convience and consitency, much like McDonalds. Starbucks is easy to find and I know what they have, no matter where in the world I go. I might find a better coffee elsewhere, but then, I  might find a worse one and either way it requires some effort.

Also, from what I've found in the UK, they do the best coffee. I prefer Starbucks' coffee to Costa, Cafe Nero and Coffee Republic. While non chain coffee shops exist, they are very few and very far between. I can think of 3 in London and two of them sell Costa coffee, so it's just like going to a Costa but with a different name on the front.

Starbucks' Little Lie - Freshwashing

Althea

Wed May 14 12:12:11 -0700 2008

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Most coffee afficiandos will know that once you open a vacuum packed bag of whole bean coffee, you have about a week or less before the coffee goes terribly stale.  Coffee beans, like all grown produce--tomatoes, peppers, lettuce-- gets old after it has been harvested. Sure, it's staling by the time it's packed after roasting, but it has been slowed down or stopped by the absence of air, depending how quickly the roasters cool down the beans.  If you don't believe me, compare the taste of the same coffee side by side (french pressed, of course) at different times--one day after you opened the bag and after six days. 

So, when the barista writes the scoop date, she is helping you out.  The five pound bag she scooped from has the roasting date on it.  I've worked for Starbucks for almost nine years, and in the old days, the five pound bags were emptied into bins with the day written when the coffee's shelf life was expired.  There is no freshgate going on here. 

Just a lot of ignorance.  But now you know.