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- Hydrogen Storage Using Formic Acid
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Uncle Entity Thu, 08 May 2008 09:50:51 PDT Science
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Unlike their research activities, scientists from the Leibniz Institute of Catalysis in Rostock have successfully found a CO2 neutral way to extract hydrogen from formic acid at room temperature for direct use in existing fuel cell technology.
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The use of formic acid for “hydrogen storage” allows the advantages of established hydrogen/oxygen fuel cell technology to be combined with those of liquid fuels. Formic acid is nontoxic and easy to store. Because formic acid can be generated catalytically from CO2 and biomass-derived hydrogen, the cycle is CO2 neutral in principle.
Ed. (CEH) -- At first glance, I'd want to know where they're storing the freed CO2 when it is separated from the formic acid if they're planning on recombining it. That would require storage in a vehicle, unless they're exhausting it to the atmosphere. If so, there goes your carbon neutrality. I'd also be interested in the energy density of the hydrogen stored in the formic acid. How does it compare, by volume, with existing batteries and liquid fuels.
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- Getting closer
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zogger Thu, 08 May 2008 20:08:43 PDT
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One of the better ideas yet on the entire hydrogen question. Really. Not seeing much to dispute here. I've spent a lot of hours myself thinking about this, and the best I could come up with was using pure unobtanium nano-alloy hydrogen storage tanks and generating the hydrogen from massive windpower and water. Formic acid...memory circuits kicking in...oh noes....Them! Giant ants from nuke testing... Breed giant ants then grind them up for fuel....patent....hmmm...ants crossed with elephant genes.... hmmm raised floating so they don't collapse from their own weight....
I need more coffee, or less coffee, this level is a little off..
With that said, going to the mild hydrogen boost model for conventional engines is still gathering interest. Dang if I am gonna drop over a thousand bucks to buy a model of it though.. I was just reading a a farm mag about some device that uses pure water and alternator energy and just injects smallish amounts of the hydrogen into the intake, supposedly it so much helps the efficiency of the burn it offsets the energy requirements of running the alternator under heavy load for the running electrolysis dealie. Allegedly, supposedly, what they claim, their MMV, and etc. Straight, no, couldn't possibly work, perpetual motion stuff, but they claim the small amounts just make the chemical reaction much better. It still gives me the willies though thinking it might work..just doesn't seem possible. But I don't know either. For the money and simplicity, just what joe average or below average wallet could maybe come up with, I think right now state of the art for alternative transportation (outside of making your own biofuels) is from a century ago, normal electric motors, cheap as can be lead acid batteries, and adjust your lifestyle and driving accordingly. They got cheap electric scooters now with claimed 20-30 mile range for like two hundred dollars to around a grand for deluxe models (I was window shopping scoooters and mopeds today, gas or electric). Adjust up for a simple car or light duty truck. It's coming, and from China, this stuff will be hitting *real dang soon* now. At hundred grand, there is a market for Teslas, at ten grand, there is a HUGE market for a simple commuter car and light duty small pickup with zero frills, just basic transpo. For me, forty miles on a charge is the sweetspot, because to town and back is around 30-32 depending on which stores I hit, meaning I wouldn't be beating on the batteries so they would last. Throw in some solar panels so eventually you are getting more or less free electricity. And don't ever, never, run your batts low, shallow cycling rules there. Anyway, I am being given an older but still functional electric floor sweeper (no batteries though, long gone), the ride on kind. We'll see what I can do with the parts.
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- Hydrogen Storage Using Formic Acid
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mrjk Thu, 08 May 2008 11:43:52 PDT
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They can still exhaust the CO2 to the atmosphere and still be carbon neutral - thats what the
"Because formic acid can be generated catalytically from CO2 and biomass-derived hydrogen, the cycle is CO2 neutral in principle."
means. As long as the process used to make the formic acid uses atmospheric CO2 and doesn't use a bunch of fossil fuel energy. This is somewhat old news as I recall. It is similar to using methanol in fuel cells, but safer.
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- Hydrogen Storage Using Formic Acid
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Harry the Bastard Thu, 08 May 2008 17:28:31 PDT
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I would expect the CO2 would be from an industrial source, such as the CO2 extractors planned for coal fired power stations. This CO2 was (is?) supposedly going to be pumped back into to the ground. (I believe CO2 is already being pumped into oil wells. This will supposedly sequester the CO2, and in the case of (old) oil wells, is also used to increase the flow of the remaining crude.)
Curiously, I never really believed that CO2 from coal power plants would make it into the ground ... having millions of tons of any cheap chemical on tap will drive people to find other uses, rather than just pumping it into the ground.
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- Hydrogen Storage Using Formic Acid
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wowbagger Thu, 08 May 2008 12:08:07 PDT
- The idea is to pull CO2 from the atmosphere and combine it with H2 from biomass to make formic acid. Thus, the total cycle is carbon neutral - CO2 from the atmosphere is returned to the atmosphere by the reformation process. (ed. wowbagger) I must have been editing at exactly the same time as the previous poster....
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