A group of bicyclists who were participating in a regularly
scheduled bike ride to promote their rights to the road got into
an
altercation with a car driver who backed up into a group of
them and hit two. They surrounded his car and extracted immediate
violent revenge. Details are still sketchy over who started it,
but the drivers windshield was broken and he apparently was
injured, and witnesses report the car had been singled out and
surrounded for some reason immediately prior to the incident.
ed.z.: You just can't have it both ways, if your goal is non
violent political activism, sometimes you just have to eat the
abuse, because you know in advance it will be there. Yes, it is
dangerous and a good way to become a martyr. Goes with the turf,
water cannon, rubber bullets, real birdshot or worse (when you
see them set up a belt fed, you know things might get dicey),
police dogs, clubs, getting arrested, maced, stomped on, violence
from the crowd outside the demo participants, whatever, the
history of non violent activism is clear, don't do it
unless you can take it and are prepared for it. If you can't
take it, retreat, if that is not possible, assume the fetal
position, protect your head, and just take it and hope for the
best. And that is it, sucky, but that is how it goes. The
whole *point* of it is to be better than your opposition and show
by example a superior moral high ground. It isn't perfect and
often isn't. Often. In fact, most of the time it just always
sucks. Been there, done that, don't have any of the T shirts
anymore, they got worn out. Never abandon the high ground if your
whatever cause is really worth it to you. Now if your goal is
"activism" in general, and you really don't care
how that change happens, well, totally different kettle of fish,
there are no rules and be prepared to eat it even more, world
history is complete with the records of what might happen. I
never went that way and hope I never have to.
You got that right. I dont know how many times I was
chased, attempts made to run me off the road, etc, etc for doing
nothing but riding where I was supposed to ride. I had one
taxi driver hit the back wheel of my bike once.
Funny how those pesky car/truck drivers who actually FUND the
road and it's maintenance via fuel taxes and vehicle
registration fees want to be able to use it without being impeded
by a bunch of snail crawling bike riders.
I agree with Von Skippy. If bike riders are trying to
mess up the flow of traffic (as with these protesters) they
should expect to get "nudged" off the road. I have
never heard of a cyclist paying any sort of road user charges
(unless from general taxes). Do they pay anything on a
"toll road"? In our city the council has had the
roads "painted" with an area for cyclists only and car
drivers get find if caught driving along those areas. These days
you have to be "very brave" or "very stupid"
to weave your way through road traffic on a bicycle.
Regardless of how you feel the cyclists have an equal right to
the road, period.
If somebody backs their car into a group of cyclists?
Uh, lemme think, dat old guy in Buick vs. a bunch of fit and now
really pissed off guys who can now presumably use "crime of
passion" as an excuse to waste this guy. How did they know
they wern't next?
Good show I say. If their point was to make people respect
cyclists maybe the next asshole won't back over them.
Good show I say. If their point was to make people respect
cyclists maybe the next asshole won't back over them.
From the article;
It's wasn't clear what sparked the confrontation at
15th and Aloha, but witnesses say they saw about a dozen
cyclists surround a white Subaru, blocking in the driver.
"There was some screaming and yelling and crunching as he
pulled out into the street," described witness Mark
Pedersen.
Apparently, the driver felt intimidated and tried to back up to
get away, but he backed into at least two cyclists.
He then tried to take off, but cyclists chased after him,
bashed in his car window and assaulted the driver.
Dude gets surrounded by an angry mob with his pregnant wife in
the car and tries to get away from said angry mob.
Angry mob chases him down the street and assaults him for unknown
causes, he didn't back into them until he felt threatened
enough to try to get away it seems.
Yeah, kudos to the bicyclists for their very justified
application of mob rule...how do you deal with a minor traffic
incident, do you assault the other driver?
I will have to make sure that I carry my pistol in the glovebox
if they ever have a pedalphile event in my city as is my legal
right to do under current law. Bunch of dangerous ruffians that
are a threat to my safety.
You don't need to carry your pistol Uncle Entity. Well,
unless you prefer a bit more space between you and your
aggressor, I suppose. Waving a pistol about might attract the
wrong sort of attention - and in the case of you vs the
'unarmed' cyclists, it tends to look bad in court,too.
You're already in control of a machine that is a very
effective weapon against comparatively weak and fragile human
bodies. It's just that most people - even angry cyclists in
the middle of mob rage who are busy beating on the outside of it
- don't expect you to use it.
I suspect we'll never know the full story, but the cyclists
upped the stakes when they started to get seriously violent. If a
person/mob tries to threaten me (or worse, me and my children)
whilst I'm driving my vehicle - and we're talking serious
implied bodily harm here, like attempting to pull me out for a
beatin' - then there'll only be one spot my right foot
will be. It will be mashing the accelerator pedal of my 1500kg
car to the floor, and it won't lift back up until I park that
car in front of the local cop shop. If that means someone winds
up under a wheel or someone gets dragged along for the ride, well
- to mangle an old phrase - don't bring a bicycle to a car
fight.
... Ryan McElroy, 25, of Bellevue, was riding with the group
and witnessed the incident. Later, he said that the driver was
under no threat from the bicyclists when he drove into them.
"He snapped. He deliberately hit the gas," McElroy
said. The driver accelerated into two cyclists, pushing one of
them across the street and under the car, and then ran the left
front tire of his car over the cyclist's leg, he said.
McElroy said there was shouting back and forth, but the
cyclists did not attack the car until after it had hit the two.
He said the driver appeared to be trying to flee until one of
the cyclists slashed the car's tires.
McElroy said some accounts made it sound as though the cyclists
attacked the car first, and the driver was trying to get away.
"Not true," he said. "The window-pounding did
happen, but not until the cyclists were run over."
Tom Braun, 36, of Seattle, said the Subaru ran over his right
leg. His bicycle was damaged beyond repair, he said, and he
ended up in the emergency room. He suffered no broken bones,
and was released, but is being monitored for possible internal
injuries.
Braun said he first saw the driver of the Subaru
"screaming at cyclists to get out of the way."
Some cyclists were explaining that everyone was nearly past,
but the driver yelled about being late for an appointment, and
drove directly into the crowd of cyclists, he said.
The front right side of the car struck Braun and dragged him
along with his bike as he hung onto the front of the car, he
said.
Then the driver ran over his leg and bike, and sped down Aloha,
he said.
Another cyclist, Jason Gruenwald of West Seattle, said he was
participating in the ride with his son when the incident began.
"It was quite scary for us passers-by on just a bicycle to
see a person threatening to use their car as a weapon,"
Gruenwald wrote in an e-mail.
"As the man didn't like the fact he may have to simply
wait until the people on the bikes passed, he let his rage and
discomfort escalate the situation by challenging the bikers
with violence."
I find it interesting that no mention of the "pregnant
passenger" are in later reports.
... Ryan McElroy, 25, of Bellevue, was riding with the
group...
Tom Braun, 36, of Seattle, said the Subaru ran over his right
leg.
Another cyclist, Jason Gruenwald of West Seattle, said he was
participating in the ride...
>
That's what we call biased witnesses in the biz.
I'm not saying the car driver was innocent, he probably
deserved an ass beating for all I know, but when you have a group
vs. an individual then the bulk of the stories are going to make
it look like the group who resorted to mob violence was morally
justified in their actions.
What's the source of these quotes one might wonder?
But in e-mails to The Seattle Times and on online forums for
Seattle bicyclists, some riders who said they were in the
Critical Mass ride characterized the Subaru driver as the
aggressor.
Wait, wait, there's more;
Some bikers sat on the car and were banging on it, he
said.
Now that right there would have me going from a patient bystander
to being out the car yelling at them to get the hell off my car.
I've blocked off the roads in Phoenix for the Toys for Tots
motorcycle run a couple times when I was in the Reserves and that
is how you don't do it. I think the 'asshats' label
may be fitting to these folks.
FTA; "According to Jamieson, witnesses told officers...Some
bikers sat on the car and were banging on it..."
Don't know where you got the driver said this from?
It looks like from a critical reading of the article you posted a
link to that;
Some bikers sat on the car and were banging on it
[T]he man tried to back up but bumped into a cyclist
This enraged the group
Several of the cyclists bashed up the Subaru, shattering the
windshield and rear window
The driver...tried to drive away but hit another bicyclist
[H]e drove about a block...before the Critical Mass riders
cornered the car and started spitting on it and banging against
it
One bicyclist punched the driver through his open window, and
another used a knife to slash the Subaru's tires
The driver got out of his car, was hit in the back of the
head and suffered a large gash
Eventually police arrived and the crowd dispersed
Those are all quotes from TFA.
I guess we can blame the driver of the car for whatever he did
that caused the bikers to sit on his car in the first place which
isn't in the article. Maybe he made direct eye contact or
something like that.
An uncritical acceptance of the driver's account,
perhaps.
Not even that! I have read all that links and the driver was
never quoted saying the cyclists attacked first. The articles are
written in a tone to make you identify with the driver, but there
was no one saying the cyclists started the attack. Quite the
opposite -- there is information about the driver driving into
people first in every article.
Some quotes of the driver:
"I overreacted and freaked out and got upset, but I was
surrounded by a mob of people and I felt really threatened and I
apologize if I hurt anyone," he says.
or:
"I just kind of panicked, and I was going to rev my engine,
but it's a stick and I was panicking. I had it in first and I
went forward and I knocked the first few bikes down," said
the driver, named Mark.
What a personality! Great example to follow, at least for
"Uncle entity", it seems....
I just take issue with all the people who think this is an
example of 'man over machine' when all it is is a case of
intimidation by a bunch of people which turned into a mob attack.
A shining example of overcoming the industrialization of
society...
I just take issue with all the people who think this is an
example of 'man over machine' when all it is is a case of
intimidation by a bunch of people which turned into a mob
attack.
Who said "man versus machine"? It's "asshole
tries to kill people with his car" versus "assholes who
blocked traffic". They're both assholes, but one TRIED
TO KILL PEOPLE.
Angry mob chases him down the street and assaults him for
unknown causes, he didn't back into them until he felt
threatened enough to try to get away it seems.
Unknown causes? He backed his car into people. Then tried to
leave the scene of what is now a hit and run, or at least
assault.
Who knows what the yelling was about. If he truly felt threatened
he could just have rolled up his windows and called the cops on
his mobile. I rather doubt he would get dragged out and
necklaced. It's Seattle, not Soweto.
Dude gets surrounded by an angry mob with his pregnant wife in
the car and tries to get away from said angry mob.
Except:
1) Mob wasn't angry till he started driving over people
2) "Pregnant" wife" is strangely absent from later
reports.
3) "Dude's" actual problem was not "rushing
pregnant woman to hospital" as the initial report implied,
but he was late for a dinner engagement, couldn't wait 30
seconds for the bikes to pass.
And yes, some of the bikers were probably dicks. That does not
give anyone a licence to RUN THEM OVER.
"If bike riders are trying to mess up the flow of
traffic"
The article stated that the aim of the group was to promote the
cyclists right to use the road. Why do you assume they were
"messing up" the flow of traffic?
"they should expect to get "nudged" off the
road."
Really? Assault is OK, if the someone gets annoyed?
Even if we assume they really were "messing up the flow of
traffic", it is OK to hit someone with your car?
"I have never heard of a cyclist paying any sort of road
user charges"
You only have rights if you pay for them? Are pedestrians
next on the "hit" parade? They dont pay anything
either. If you car is assessed more at registration time,
are your rights more? Is there nothing except money?
"Do they pay anything on a "toll road"? "
If it is anything like our freeways, they probably are not
allowed on.
"In our city the council has had the roads
"painted" with an area for cyclists only and car
drivers get find if caught driving along those areas"
And so?
"These days you have to be "very brave" or
"very stupid" to weave your way through road traffic on
a bicycle."
First, you should never weave when riding. Ride a visible
and predictible line. The 3 in a hundred actually paying
attention may appreciate it. But for the rest, something in
their hindbrain may actually engage.
Secondly, no "these days" about it, this has not
changed in my lifetime. Automobile drivers, generally, have
the attitude of "my car masses more than your bike,
therefore I can do what I want" attitude. They are,
again, generally, ill informed as to actual rules and regulations
of the road. And this is the reason why you have to be
"very brave" or "very stupid".
Why do you assume they were "messing up" the flow of
traffic?
Because these wasn't just any bunch of riders. These were
those Critical Mass ass hats. They don't 'promote equal
access'. They screw up traffic as bad as they can to
'protest'.
This is the first time I have seen anything about Critical Mass,
so, how should I know that a priori? I just read the
wikipedia article about them, and I can see where you are coming
from. I can also, having in the past ridden a bike in
traffic, see where they are coming from, and, personally, I would
take the quotes off the protest. Automobile drivers, by and
large, are a bunch of very dim bulbs, ignorant of the rules of
the road, excepting the (non-existant) parts about how larger
vehicles have the right of way, regardless.
How much wear and tear do bicycles contribute to the road?
For all of the "This truck spends $X000/year in road use
taxes" stickers, from what I've heard they're not
paying their fair share. Despite the road use taxes they
pay, they cause proportionally more road damage than they pay in
those higher taxes.
Pedalers Pummel Driver at Demo
A group of bicyclists who were participating in a regularly scheduled bike ride to promote their rights to the road got into an altercation with a car driver who backed up into a group of them and hit two. They surrounded his car and extracted immediate violent revenge. Details are still sketchy over who started it, but the drivers windshield was broken and he apparently was injured, and witnesses report the car had been singled out and surrounded for some reason immediately prior to the incident.
Updates: Seattle Times report and Seattle bike Love forum for some accounts by cyclists. And another witness's account here.
ed.z.: You just can't have it both ways, if your goal is non violent political activism, sometimes you just have to eat the abuse, because you know in advance it will be there. Yes, it is dangerous and a good way to become a martyr. Goes with the turf, water cannon, rubber bullets, real birdshot or worse (when you see them set up a belt fed, you know things might get dicey), police dogs, clubs, getting arrested, maced, stomped on, violence from the crowd outside the demo participants, whatever, the history of non violent activism is clear, don't do it unless you can take it and are prepared for it. If you can't take it, retreat, if that is not possible, assume the fetal position, protect your head, and just take it and hope for the best. And that is it, sucky, but that is how it goes. The whole *point* of it is to be better than your opposition and show by example a superior moral high ground. It isn't perfect and often isn't. Often. In fact, most of the time it just always sucks. Been there, done that, don't have any of the T shirts anymore, they got worn out. Never abandon the high ground if your whatever cause is really worth it to you. Now if your goal is "activism" in general, and you really don't care how that change happens, well, totally different kettle of fish, there are no rules and be prepared to eat it even more, world history is complete with the records of what might happen. I never went that way and hope I never have to.