Is Google Past "Do No Evil"?

Thu Jul 31 07:05:00 -0700 2008
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A little over a year ago, we had an article here entitled "Go Ogle Maps", which discussed what I'll call the first wave of complaints regarding the very visual nature of Google's "Street View" and the ways in which Google ammasses information for it.

Has Google changed its stance from its erstwhile credo of "Do No Evil" to "complete privacy does not exist" [too many references to single one out. Just, um, google it]?

Actually, Google never said "Do No Evil". What they did say was, "You can make money without doing evil", and that's just point #6 under the heading of "Ten things Google has found to be true". So technically, they never promised to be these good guys that the industry reporters have made them out to be. Also, it does not appear to me as if Google has a money problem. So, the question is, what other reasons do they have for doing this? George Dyson's recently-slashdotted short story "Engineers' Dreams" implies that Google is searching us more than we are searching Google. In my very insignificant opinion, this has been perfectly obvious for a number of years already, and the things they are doing with all that knowledge is mindboggling.

So what does it mean when Google states that complete privacy does not exist?

Well for starters, it means that they dare say it; they've become big and powerful enough that it can't possibly affect them in the slightest if a few of us are horrified and outraged. It also means they can get away with it. They're probably also so settled in their "Do No Evil" karma that it would take a lot more for the industry to change their view on the giant. Besides, in our day and age, what body of government is going to stop them? It's that business of who will throw the first rock in the glass house (snicker).

 

"But," I hear you say, "okay so they've driven up people's driveways and made photographs, but they could just as well have been made with a satellite or a telephoto lens. Plus, you know you can just submit a removal form via their website. There, now it's no longer invasion of privacy." I don't subscribe to that point of view, but I can see why it seems to make sense. It's not a matter of from where you snap a photo, or that they offer an after-the-fact opt-out form, it's that they do it to begin with without my consent or knowledge. If we were talking about unsolicited email, faxes, or phone calls, would you accept an opt-out service after you've been spammed? Not that you could even compare it like that, because that's just annoying to you, it does not publically display private information. All this talk about people or things that are found to be in places they're not supposed to be, all I can say is is that that's not a service.

Naturally, had Google not said this in the first place, the situation itself would have been no different, and I guess most of us here are already quite aware that trying to protect one's privacy is utterly impossible and only results in personal misery and depression. After all, it's not really just Google I'm talking about.

Why not just embrace the new world, they're only offering a service, they're our side, and aren't we the better off for it? Because it fills me with apprehension, is why. When I want to go my own ways, it's nice to know that I can. For instance, saving on gas by driving a little more leisurely (or just biking to work), or opting for low-energy lighting and appliances. Sometimes, you just have to do what everybody else is doing or you'd have disaster, such as driving on the same side of the road as everyone else. ...And yet other times, you have no choice but to do what everybody else is doing, all the while being absolutely certain it'll end up in disaster exactly because everyone is such a sheep.

I'm still caring and protective about my privacy but, like the time I saw a film with a British WWI prisoner who meticulously pretended to shave even though he hadd neither straight razor, brush, nor mirror, I'm not entirely sure I know who I'm kidding.

opting out and personal sovereignty

Thu Jul 31 10:04:27 -0700 2008
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Rough road to travel, but once underway it gets a littler easier. Obviously in our society you can't be totally private unless you like go to the Himalayas and live in an ice cave or something, but you can be a lot more free by just stopping doing what you said, following along with the herd and doing everything they do. Just pick small things, get independent, and work from there. The old "How do you eat an elephant?" question, one bite at a time.

Is Google Past "Do No Evil"?
Thu Jul 31 11:03:00 -0700 2008
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Allow me to ask: what is the value of privacy?  Why do we want it?

Why privacy?

Thu Jul 31 11:46:22 -0700 2008
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Privacy has many benefits. 

Privacy allows for greater freedom of choice for an individual. Many people would feel constrained from many actions if performed in front of others. Stage fright is an example, but expand that to any number of other things - learning to drive, play golf whatever. If a video of your learning was available to anybody it would definitely constrain courses of action.

Privacy reduces the chance of corrupt government intervention. If the data about my whereabouts is not available than it can't tempt someone to misuse it.

Similarly for criminal activity. Availability and ease of search of information such as what I have in the backyard would increase the possibility of theft.

Asymmetrical privacy, which I see no way of avoiding, David Brin's "Transparent Society" notwithstanding, leads to increased chance for use of beliefs and behavior as a bludgeon by government. Increasing and ensuring personal privacy as much as possible, makes society and government less apt to create tyranny of the majority situations. 

There are many more reasons. Humans have always lived in smaller groups with personal knowledge among personal acquaintances. I have no problem with my neighbors or visitors to my neighbors looking into my yard. I have an issue with pictures of my yard being accessible and searchable to the world for who knows what use.

Why privacy?
Thu Jul 31 15:40:52 -0700 2008
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I'm not to sure how google got dragged into all this. If you want complete and total privacy build a 20' fence around your house—hold on, zoning laws you say?

I can't think of any corporation that isn't in the sights of some predatory lawyer waiting for the day that someone walks into their office with, "my privacy was invaded, look you can google it."

Much ado about nothing.

Wake me up when they start publishing genetic information cross referenced with buying habits and medical history like Thomas Lord was going on about.

Value

Thu Jul 31 15:36:02 -0700 2008
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To keep from going nuts? Throw some sci fi at it. Suppose everyone was full telepathic. Imagine just the sheer noise level in your head from being able to hear everything all the time. Think of the stress factor as you had to suffer through everyone else's problems along with your own. heck, even experiencing everyone else's "joy" would be stressful enough.

We have a phrase, peace and quiet, it is only half achieved in the quietest library, because you know it could be interrupted at any moment, and that you have no recourse to stop it. So we have rooms, with doors, that both open and shut.

Some people have higher tolerances than others, for instance, I once spent two weeks in NYC and that was *it* couldn't stand any more, just way too loud, the city sounds, sirens, non stop talking everywhere, cabs, etc, just all of it, intruded so bad it felt like you couldn't escape. Felt like a prison to me. Never gone back either, just too much. Any advantages were grossly outweighed by the disadvantages, for those things that have personal value to me. I don't need the theater when I have a creek and some plants and animals to look at. I don't need 20 good restaurants within walking distance when I have one good garden and a kitchen. I'll trade non stop 24/7 traffic noise for occasional tractor noise, because I can control the on/off switch there.

In societies that lack thick walls and stout doors and have very little living space, say where they use paper walls, privacy is an artform that must be learned from birth, and it still leads to a stress filled society. It's easier to just have more space.

heh, remember the the original star trek episode with the crowded planet, and it was crowded because they had eliminated want and disease? No one lacked for anything except *privacy*. It backfired on them. It was driving them nuts, it got so bad that the foxy space babe seduced kirk so she could get a disease and help thin the population out.

Is Google Past "Do No Evil"?
Thu Jul 31 14:13:23 -0700 2008
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Privacy aside, Google's "don't be evil" stance has been laughable ever since they went public.

Amazing how long it takes some folks to notice the change. Give a dog a good name...

Requirements & Exceptions

Thu Jul 31 17:12:26 -0700 2008
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A "Private Road" sign is meaningless. A "No Trespassing" sign is necessary but not sufficient. The law does not require literacy. Plus you can't expect people to respect your property boundaries if they can't tell where those boundaries are. That means a fence is also required. If your gate is posted but not padlocked then neighbors and the Avon Lady can and will come on your property if they feel they have a good reason. And law enforcement, surveyors, and other agents of the state can come on your property at any time if they have reason. That includes hot pursuit for police, or surveying your neighbor's land for surveyors. Many times survey crews get run off at gunpoint. They just come back with the sheriff. And if someone isn't on your land they can take all the pictures they want. Google photographers' rights. Exception: military installations and the like. Check your deed. When you buy land you become a partner of the state. Guess who is the junior partner.

Is Google Past "Do No Evil"?
Thu Jul 31 18:40:30 -0700 2008
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I'd also point out that privacy, at best, is neutral, not a definite good.

Total anonymity can be a very bad thing indeed.

Is Google Past "Do No Evil"?
Thu Jul 31 22:16:33 -0700 2008
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I'm much more concerned with Google keeping records of all the searches I make. Or if I used GMail (I don't) searching through that for things to advertise to me.

I really can't get bothered about a homeowner bitching about Google taking photos of the outside of his house. Big deal. Grow a hedge. Put curtains on your windows.

If you want total privacy, buy a square mile of land and put a fence around it. Put up a camo net for the paparazzi in helicopters.

Privacy is not boolean!

Fri Aug 01 06:25:07 -0700 2008
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Whenever the subject of privacy comes up, people seem to treat it as a boolean.

In the "True camp" we have residents (sorry for the pop-culture stereotype) of Montana, cash-only types, and to a lesser extent, zogger.

In the "False camp" we have those who say that true privacy is impossible, so why pretend privacy exists, at all.

Neither side is right.  We're a society, and unless you're willing to move to the far side of the moon, or further, total privacy is impossible.  (Even then, the Lunar Surveyer and it's ilk will take photos of you.)  But by the same token, I don't think any of us are ready to have cameras installed in our bedrooms and bathrooms, to name a few.

Perhaps the best value would be to establish privacy as a continuum, and begin to define what reasonable points on that continuum are.

Is Google Past "Do No Evil"?
Sat Aug 02 05:14:50 -0700 2008
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> Actually, Google never said "Do No Evil"

Actually, they did. Its their corporate motto, displayed at headquarters in numerous locations, it was widely quoted and referred to by the CEO during the IPO, and most importantly, its referred to repeatedly on their (still current) conduct page:

http://investor.google.com/conduct.html