US Border Agency Can Seize Laptops

Kai Howells

Sun Aug 03 17:41:40 -0700 2008

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Now, I've seen this reported elsewhere and it's a worrying proposition. As a non US citizen, I'm putting the question out to anyone in the US - what are the chances of this happening to the average traveller?

There are people in the news who are making a statement and cancelling trips to the US simply because they're not willing to submit to such treatment - how likely is someone to have this happen to them?

US Border Agency Can Seize Laptops

hornlo

Sun Aug 03 19:44:26 -0700 2008

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Chertoff, in an op-ed piece said:

How often do we search laptops? Of the approximately 400 million travelers who entered the country last year, only a tiny percentage were referred to secondary baggage inspection for a more thorough examination. Of those, only a fraction had electronic devices that may have been checked.

But he is the secretary of Homeland Security; here's your grain of salt for the random selection generator.

I have no idea, but....

zogger

Sun Aug 03 19:50:32 -0700 2008

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..I wouldn't tote anything critically important or expensive, at best a well used and cheap laptop and use the net to redownload the stuff you need once well inside the borders. You can score prepaid cellphones here cheap in any *mart you go in. What I would have on the laptop is just a host of files, all pertaining to freedom issues, a lot of quoting from past learned leaders like jefferson and franklin,gandhi, mlk, you name it, francis marion,willian wallace, a lot of them dudes, little tidbits like about the Nuremberg trials, etc. The constitution, the bill of rights, the magna carta, that sort of stuff. Just so any goombahs who wanted to take a gander would possibly get *embarrassed* over their actions. Articles on the stasi and kgb and gestapo, along those lines. Go ahead, let them look, let them get a big fat eyefull, everything they would then look at is dissing what they are doing and giving historical relevance about why that is important, about why we should learn from history and not keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

A major part of this continuing command and control and surveillance big brother scene is because of willing order followers along with the "anything goes" blood profits folks who don't care one single iota how they make their money as long as it is a lot of money..Big Brother makes a few people very powerful and very rich.

Insane megalomaniacal rulers we all have, all the way back into time lost, but their numbers are absurdly low, that is and has always been the critical part that is missed all the time, it is the unquestioning order followers cashing the checks and shrugging their shoulders just "doing their jobs" at every step towards a total big brother society that causes the real problems. If that didn't exist, if we didn't have the unquestioning order followers and instead had questioning order followers who could and would say "no, this is crazy, I simply refuse to be part of this" once in awhile, then the nutjob "rulers" with all their absurd rulings and edicts and fantasies leading to conflicts and strife and so on would be locked up in the looney bin where they belong with the other criminally insane people. How does kim ill dungpile stay in power and just ruin his nation and cause despair? Unquestioning order followers. zimbabwe? ditto. Across the board, all through history, it just never ends. .It is this cult like behavior which is bad, and it doesn't matter if it is a destructive religious cult, some political party cult, some weird "those folks over yonder who don't look like us or talk like us are subhuman so let's get 'em" cult mindset, none of that matters as much as recognizing it is cultish behavior and something we should have evolved away from generations ago. that, and it is hugely profitable, war and terror is an old *industry*. Or how this one guy puts it, a racket.

Just imagine if just regular folks just said no. "We have to go invade east elbownia because their king insulted our king!!" spits the ruler's town crier. Two choices, take up pitchforks and run to do battle based on that BS, or laugh at the fool and tell him he is crazy and walk away. And that's it. All peoples get to choose to one degree or another. And the more people who choose to just not go that route, the better off we all will be. Across the board, it doesn't matter skin tone, religion, politics, none of that, just a basic understanding that you over here and joe whatever over there have way more in common than either of you have with your respective fearless leaders, who exist to just give orders and have people follow them..for some loony and profitable reason.

We would all have a lot more peace and freedom -and prosperity- around the world if that could just happen more. We had a saying in the 60s which is as relevant today as it was then, you are part of the problem, or part of the solution.

I have no idea, but....

Eric Howe

Sun Aug 03 20:37:42 -0700 2008

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You might want to read The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer, we humans are herd beasts.

I have no idea, but....

Bhima

Mon Aug 04 01:58:09 -0700 2008

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That may well be the most interesting link I have seen posted here. Ever.

 

This answers many questions that have been on my mind for a while.  One of which being how is it possible that G.W.B. and his administration has such an astoundingly high approval rating, who are these people? And the other being how is possible that so many people in the United States TLAs  (DHS, TSA, FBI, CIA), the local law enforcement agencies, and (to a much lesser extent) private security and mercenary corporations so willingly & enthusiastically engage in behavior which either violates their fellow citizens’ rights, the law of the land, someone’s human rights or all of the above, all at once.

US Border Agency Can Seize Laptops

hornlo

Sun Aug 03 19:38:38 -0700 2008

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I blogged about this earlier today.

According to the Washington Post, it's much worse:

The policies cover “any device capable of storing information in digital or analog form,” including hard drives, flash drives, cellphones, iPods, pagers, beepers, and video and audio tapes. They also cover “all papers and other written documentation,” including books, pamphlets and “written materials commonly referred to as ‘pocket trash’ or ‘pocket litter.’ ”

The actual policy says:

For example, examinations of documents and electronic devices are a crucial tool for detecting information concerning terrorism, narcotics smuggling, and other national security matters; alien admissibility; contraband including child pornography, monetary instruments, and information in violation of copyright or trademark laws; and evidence of embargo violations or other import or export control laws.

So, they can get you for copyright violations if nothing else.

The policy (PDF) is here.

US Border Agency Can Seize Laptops

Kai Howells

Sun Aug 03 20:40:42 -0700 2008

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OK, hypothetical question time...

I'm going for a holiday to the US. Do I take my iPod Touch, or iPhone? Do I delete the softcore porn I've got on it?

I'm travelling to the states on a work trip, to see a potential client. I need to run some presentations. Do I go to all the bother of getting a second-hand laptop, acquiring the necessary software and then downloading my presentation from my work server just on the off-chance that my laptop will be seized?

I'm a US citizen and am returning to the country. I have commercially sensitive information on my laptop, and it' all encrypted well (128- or 256-bit AES). My laptop is taken for examination, do they have to ask me for the encryption keys? Do I have to provide them?

I'm visiting family in NY, and want to take my digital camera, and also want to take my iPhone to show them photos. What's the chance that either my memory card or my phone will be taken for an extended period of time (>8 hours)?

US Border Agency Can Seize Laptops

Uncle Entity

Sun Aug 03 21:05:56 -0700 2008

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If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear...

US Border Agency Can Seize Laptops

Kai Howells

Sun Aug 03 21:17:10 -0700 2008

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Except losing my equipment for a possibly extended period of time...

US Border Agency Can Seize Laptops

computersareevil

Mon Aug 04 13:12:24 -0700 2008

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Uncle Entity was being sarcastic. (I hope.)

But the answer to all your questions is "Yes". They have the authority, ethics, the Constitution, and human rights be damned, to search and sieze any and all of those on the thinnest of pretexts.

And especially don't bring anything in with any encrypted data. If you are "selected", they will ask for the password and may ship you off to Gitmo if you refuse to supply it. Citizenship is no longer a shield from illegal search and siezure or detention.

The softcore is probably as bad as encrypted data because they will instantly think you might be a pedophile and take all of your electronics for searching (and copying the softcore to their own personal electronics for private viewing pleasure, of course).

If they take anything, the odds appear excellent it will be a long time (months) before you get it back, if ever. Do not bring anything across the border you are not willing to throw off a cliff.